A true story: turning challenges into change 

Lee Wochner: 
More than 10 years ago, Maria Alex Alexander was involved in drugs, lost custody of her two children, got incarcerated, and then wound up homeless, living outside alongside the 101 Freeway in Los Angeles. She was almost another sort of story, but then she found her way to a nonprofit organization that helped her triumph over her circumstances. Kicking drugs, regaining her kids, and eventually becoming executive director of that nonprofit. Now, heading up an organization that has quadrupled its revenues in recent years and is helping more people in more ways than ever before, Alex tells us just how she did that, what the keys were to success, and how sharing your story with the right audience can advance both your nonprofit’s mission and its bottom line in this episode of That’s What C Said. 

Jaclyn Uloth: 
Welcome to the podcast that lightens the tension when things sort of get hard…That’s What C! Said, the Counterintuity podcast, featuring interviews with leaders and doers who have helped to make our world a better place through their actions — and especially through marketing, communications, and embracing change. Here’s host Lee Wochner.  

Lee Wochner: 
Nice to see you. You know, you and I have known each other—hang on, I looked it up—you and I have known each other since 2010. Doesn’t time fly? Yeah, we were introduced by a mutual acquaintance. He was a board member of yours and someone I knew from the theater community because you and I also have theater in common along with Peter Finlayson. And that’s how we met. We met 15 years ago almost and we did a little work together. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Absolutely. 

Lee Wochner: 
So I already know the answer to this question, but for other people, can you help us understand what the Center for Living and Learning does? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Absolutely. So the Center for Living and Learning rebuilds lives for those needing employment and case management services who have experienced barriers to employment and just reintegration into society. So that could be having been incarcerated or involved in the criminal justice system somehow, drug treatment, homelessness, or just needing a hand up to get a job and reintegrate. So we provide a menu of services under an employment and case management umbrella. 

Lee Wochner: 
So you’ve hit a number of topics that keep recurring here on our podcast. Excuse me, I’m getting over COVID, as you heard before, so I’m going to do the throat clearing thing, I apologize. You know, we have a terrible prison problem in this country. And in the early 1800s, Alexis de Tocqueville wrote that we had the envy of the prison system in the world. And boy, it has sure gone wrong. And now we have the for-profit prison industrial system that locks up a whole bunch of people. Sure, I’m sure some folks belong there, but I mean, the numbers are crazy. And then when they come out of prison, I bet it’s just really hard to get employed. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yes, and so it’s difficult to get employed, but it’s also difficult to reacclimate if someone’s been in for a while. Usually, prison doesn’t really solve any of our issues or problems; it just exacerbates them. Even though there are many programs within the prisons now, it’s not enough, and we need all the support we can get when we get out. 

Lee Wochner: 
So, boy, helping people turn their lives around and reintegrate—that’s quite a mission. How do you guys do that? What programs do you offer? How does it work? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
So, people come to us from various partners that we have in the community. We don’t really advertise too much looking for people to serve because they show up from our long-term partnerships with treatment centers, halfway houses, and government agencies that we’re contracted with. So, people find us, and they’ll come in, and our team will assess what their needs are. If it’s employment, but they might need some stabilization services first, then they would enroll with our case managers, who will help them by linking them to housing, which is very difficult but depends on what type of housing they’re looking for. Financial coaching, getting food, transportation, and making sure that once we begin employment services, they can actually obtain a job and take the job if we find them one. 

So that’s our case management services. And then once they’re referred to employment, we’ll begin some job readiness prep—basic application assistance, resumes, mock interviews. And once someone’s completed that, they can be referred to our various career training programs. This is something new—well, not new, but since I met with you last on this topic. So, we have career training, paid work experience, and people come in and they get paid to work here. They can also get social service training. Our specialty is putting people back into work in treatment centers and other social service agencies. Although they’re not limited to those fields, we have quite an extensive career training track along with paid work experience. 

And that includes supportive services, including money in stipends for housing, for clothing, for gas, car repairs. It just depends on which program they fall into and meet the criteria for. But it’s a comprehensive menu of services now. 

Lee Wochner: 
And the goal is to help ensure housing and employment? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yes, and I’m sure you know, being in the Valley with me, that housing is very difficult. We do have funds to assist with shared-type housing or group-type housing, which is much more affordable, or renting a room for our individuals, as well as—and this one’s a new one, Lee, you may not know—we opened housing for women, up to 30 beds, in two different locations in the Valley for justice-involved women, either single women, those who identify as women, and/or women with children. 

Lee Wochner: 
That’s awesome. Congratulations. For people outside California, let me take a moment to explain that the number one issue in California is housing. So, in the state, we are short at least 1 million domiciles, and there are other estimates that say 2 to 3 million domiciles. And so, it’s driven up the market rate of housing and what it costs. 

Here’s how old school I can be, Alex. When I was younger, they used to say a third of your income should go to housing. Do you remember that? Yeah, it’s laughable now, right? So then they moved it up to 50% of your income should go to housing, and that’s a national number. And here in California, it’s more. On the one hand, if you’re a property owner, it’s great days. On the other hand, if you’re looking for a place to live, it’s really an issue. And we need to build some more housing and create some more housing here in California and find alternative ways to get people housed. So thank you for what you’re doing. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Thank you. 

Lee Wochner: 
So, when someone shows up at the Center for Living and Learning, which is in Los Angeles, by the way, and near me—Alex and I are both in the San Fernando Valley, that’s really what we’re talking about here in Los Angeles—what sort of cases do you see? Like, when someone shows up, what do you usually find is going on? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
It depends on which services they’re coming in for. If it’s primarily employment, they’re coming traditionally from a halfway house where they’ve paroled to and/or drug treatment centers. So that’s our primary group. They’re coming out of treatment, and they’ve already taken great steps to get the help that’s needed, to have the mindset to come out and succeed in the world from treatment or incarceration. So that’s our primary people. Those that come for case management and/or housing services may have a higher level of need of care regarding mental health support and enrollment in those services, but people can be co-enrolled in both. So, you can still need case management services and not have that higher level of need. 

But not everybody in case management services who needs access to healthcare, mental health, and maybe treatment services as well are ready for employment. So, they may not be going to employment, and they may have disability benefits. So, it’s a different sort of population that may be coming in for the various programs, but overall, the highest number or the highest percentage of people are coming out of treatment and incarceration. 

Lee Wochner: 
Yeah, okay. Well, good—better than alternatives. So, you also have services you provide for businesses, which I always thought was a great idea and, you know, a win-win. There have been varying hiring crises, and then you guys offer employment. Can you talk about the services that you provide for businesses? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yes, we operate a social enterprise answering service, which, when we were working with you, we were looking to determine what our next steps would be as our car donation revenue from operating a call center—where we received nationwide car donations—dropped dramatically and is almost non-existent. But we knew it was really important to have a safe place for our people to land and get paid work experience in a supportive environment. So, we started looking for a way to keep our call center specialty in operation, and that’s by offering answering services to other businesses. So, we have smaller businesses that still prefer to have a human answer the phone. It is difficult in this new era—well, it’s not a new era, but with the increased use of technology there isn’t necessarily a preference for a human person answering a call. So, it’s not as robust as we would like it to be. So, we have pivoted to offering other outreach and community services for different nonprofits. 

Lee Wochner: 
So, one of the reasons that we named our agency Counterintuity is we try to look at things a little differently, right? Try to find different solutions. Initially, you and I had a conversation about how to compete in the car donation space. And you and I both know that the master player of that is not doing what they say they’re doing with the money. And they had a huge campaign, and their jingle drives me crazy because it’s just… Yeah, then I asked… No kidding, no kidding. Well, it’s just not right. I mean, it’s not what those folks do, and they don’t do what they say they’re gonna do, and it’s just not right. And yes, the jingle is an earworm; it’s awful. So, in any event, I came over to your office, which is in Van Nuys …district in Los Angeles, and I went, “Alex, you’re like three blocks from the big government center. I know a whole bunch of people in there, and they are elected officials who control the budget. Shouldn’t you be getting some state program aid for what you guys do, which is relieve the overcrowding in prisons?”  

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
I just have to interrupt, Lee, real fast. My grandson sings that song, and it irritates me to no end. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Absolutely do, because that’s how we are where we are today, from your guidance. 

Lee Wochner: 
Yeah, so, you know, I’ve known so many good and earnest people managing nonprofits and serving on nonprofit boards and such, and trying to look at something in a new light and trying to do a resource check of what would make the most sense can get you big benefits. And I’m just so proud of you guys. I’m proud of you, Alex, and I’m proud of what you guys do. And you were open to taking a different look at this. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yeah, and I would just love to say thank you again, Lee, if I could, because you’re pushing me to get in front of legislators and share our mission and my story, and giving me that courage to do that literally is what saved us and kept our doors open. And I know I’ve shared that with you many times, but I can never say it enough. 

Lee Wochner: 
Well, thank you. But the real story here is you’re a personal hero of mine. I mean, I don’t know anybody who’s done a better job of turning her life story around and into one of incredible success. And let’s talk about that for a minute because, if people want an inspiring story, here it is for today. So, Alex, I’ve known you, as we talked about, for 14 years. And when I met you, you were already a successful nonprofit executive, right? And you had some challenges you were working on; you were somewhat newly appointed. What were the 10 years before that like in your life? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
We’re a peer-based model, and I forgot to say that at the beginning, but we’re a peer-based model, and we hire from the people we serve. And I was actually the first person to be hired that had a criminal record and was coming out of treatment. So, I started at Center for Living and Learning in the paid work experience program while I was still in residential drug treatment. And like I said, I was the first one to come with that background. And the support I got here was instrumental. But prior to getting to treatment, I had been in and out of homelessness. I literally lived on the side of the 110 freeway before the high rises were there. And now you can’t live there. I did for on and off for years and in and out of the county jail. And it was just an awful lifestyle. But I went in and out of that for years until I ended up here. 

Thankfully for 22 years now, I have not had to get arrested, go to jail, be homeless, have my utilities turned off, not have a job. 

Lee Wochner: 
It seems better this way. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yes, and my kids would agree as well. Yeah, because part of my story, something I’ve just shared publicly in the last five or six years to really advance care in the community and policies, is that I literally went into labor on the side of the 110 freeway. So that’s something that can be very shameful for a woman and a mom to share. But I felt it necessary to not just give a face to us, but also to advocate for services in the community and why it’s so important. 

Lee Wochner: 
So Alex, I hold you in high regard, as you know, and you’re a very brave woman. Yes, I talked you into sharing that story and would not take no for an answer because that’s an incredibly motivating story. I think my experience of people is that most people are good people. I thought when they hear your story, they’re going to want to invest in that program. So good for you, and good for you for the bravery to tell that story because that was amazing. So then, through a wonderful chain of circumstances, you end up running the joint. How did you wind up as executive director of the Center for Living and Learning? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Well, I came in about a year after the organization was founded, and I trained closely. I was here originally for 18 months and just got trained in various departments and promoted. I worked with the vice president for about a year before she left, and then the founder left. So I was basically the last one left standing, three years in recovery and three years here. So it was a tremendous amount of learning on the job. I learned how to run a car donation program and a training program that served about 18 a year, but it was primarily advertising. Not minimizing it, it was just a different job. Now, as that revenue tanked, it’s been many years of just learning nonprofit law, nonprofit accounting, government contracting, fundraising—some things better than others. 

Lee Wochner: 
In my life and through my work with nonprofits at Counterintuity and elsewhere, I’ve found that many of the people running nonprofits have personal stories that attach them to the mission of the nonprofit. When we were consulting for Planned Parenthood, we found that some of the board members were women who had had abortions that they needed to have. You know, there’s the person fighting domestic abuse who had to live through it as a child. There’s the person with drug and alcohol problems who’s now leading a program to help people get off those substances. Why do you think so many folks wind up running those organizations or serving key roles? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
We know what we need. So we know what we need from a program need side that doesn’t always translate into an administrative side. But it was just something that I was very interested in learning and advancing. I saw it as a vehicle to help others the way I was helped. I was asked, within a year of being here, to reach back and find more people like me who had criminal records and drug problems but were good employees. That was the request. At first, I thought that was a little strange, but I knew there were people who needed jobs. Just seeing people continue to elevate and design some of the programs that we would implement showed that we’re employable, and the people who have this passion can learn to do what they need to do if it’s something they’re very passionate about. 

Lee Wochner: 
I never write people off. It’s amazing what people are capable of when you give them a chance. So coming from that background, how would you say that has influenced your own work at the Center for Living and Learning? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
It’s influenced, again, program design—what the needs are, what best benefits our people, and how we find money to get what I was given that came out of our car donation revenue, which we don’t have as a donation stream to just hand out. So what we say is we come in, and you figure out as a nonprofit leader how to hustle for the good stuff. I don’t know if I can swear, but we’re used to hustling. We’re hustlers, so we’re like, let’s just hustle for the good stuff. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
I do have a theater background from college. I was offered money to go to any college I could get into by my uncle if it was business, and I said no because I just was not interested in business. But this is a business, right? So now I’m running a business and learning business, but it’s still so creative because of what we’re doing in our mission and our people, who also influence how we design programs. It’s not just me because I’m getting further and further removed. So I need the people coming in to really inform our program design and how we’re going to run this place because they’re really running it. I’m at the top, but they’re running the daily operations. 

Lee Wochner: 
Yeah. And you’ve kept your hand in enough in the theater. I mean, I’ve seen you turn up at my own theater enough over the years. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yes, I no longer wish to act, but I like to view. I like to view others. 

Lee Wochner: 
And so, last question in this area: So you just opened a new space for a new housing space? Is that what you were saying a few minutes ago? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
We did. We opened two housing locations. We competed for a grant for case management services—they’re called community health workers—for women that are justice-involved. We already have a program that accepts men or women, but we received another contract through the county for women. They reached out and said, “Do you want to get into the housing game?” I probably would not have competed against other housing providers. We weren’t sure as a board if we really wanted to jump into that. But since it was offered to us with basically no financial risk, we said, “Okay, let’s explore this.” It took us about six months to make a final decision, but we did. And we’ve been operational since March. 

Lee Wochner: 
Wow, and how many people can you house? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
30. We have one location with two three-bedroom houses and a one-bedroom apartment on the same lot, and then another six-bedroom home with an attached ADU. So through those properties, we’re able to house 30 women and their children. Some have multiple children, and they count towards the 30. So it’s 30 max. 

Lee Wochner: 
To anybody who might think that’s a drop in the bucket, if you were that drop who would otherwise be on the street, that’s an incredible accomplishment. I mean, that’s really an amazing accomplishment that you’re housing 30 people. Good for you. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Thank you. And I can’t even imagine what things I could have avoided in my life had these services been offered when I was in and out of jail, pregnant in jail, and offered nothing. No one even pulled me aside to offer some kind of words of wisdom—nothing. I went out to the street with nothing. So to be able to take in pregnant women or women who just gave birth and have nowhere to go is, you know, it’s huge. It’s huge. 

Lee Wochner: 
All right, we’re going to take a short break here, but when we come back, Alex and I will be talking about the changes she’s put in place at her nonprofit, what it’s like running the Center for Living and Learning, and the successes they’ve had. Stick around. 

Jaclyn Uloth:
Hi, this is Jaclyn with Counterintuity.

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Lee Wochner:   
And we’re back with Maria Alex Alexander, Executive Director of the Center for Living and Learning in Los Angeles. So during the commercial break, Alex, you were talking about 14 years ago, just before the turnaround at the Center for Living and Learning, and you had lost your main funding source, which was car donations. Can you talk about that period? What was it like? Because we’d love to find out what it was like and then what you did and how it’s been going since then. So what was that? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:   
Extremely nerve-racking because we were, you know, revenues were decreasing yearly for a few years in a row. We were down to a limited amount of cash, very limited. And my plan was to ask the board, let’s shut down within three months and I’ll stay and finish out any requirements and get rid of staff. But let’s go out giving them some pay and some extra benefits and, you know, let’s go out on good terms. We had been advocating for various policies that were passed, and we were hoping to reap the benefits of those policies, but we did not know if those were gonna come to fruition. And the board said, why don’t you hang in there, let’s see if any of these things come through that you were working towards. And thankfully they did because during that time, people who really didn’t understand, I think, were advising on individual donor campaigns and, you know, various things that are going to take a while to establish and build out. And I just kept saying, we’re going to shut down, and we can’t get large foundation grants. It’s not going to save us. We need government contracts. And that’s what saved us. That’s what saved us. 

Lee Wochner:   
Okay. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:   
We couldn’t turn it around with all the traditional ways that nonprofits have various diversified funding streams. There wasn’t time. 

Lee Wochner:   
But the key was telling your story, getting your story out there because, I mean, your story was one of success and it’s a story everybody wants, you know, because you assume that people can be lifted up and reintegrated into society and contribute back to society and you had proved it. We just had to go tell. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:   
Yes, exactly. You know, originally, I think when I first met you, I wasn’t comfortable. I was comfortable sharing my story, but something you pointed out was that I didn’t have to worry about ego and not wanting to be the center of attention. That I should be sharing that story as the leader. And that was my concern. And I had never voiced it, but it was that it’s not all about me. But it turns out it was to get into those spaces, in those rooms to share my story, but then turn around and say there’s so many others like me. So getting into those spaces with my story helped the policy and advocacy and being in those spaces. And then the turnaround in generally in the community of Brown wanting to spend money on reentry services, peer services became popular. We were doing it since 2002, but it became popular. And so we were in the right spaces at the right time. But it took years of building those relationships and being able to be in those spaces at the right time. 

Lee Wochner:   
So you were in this period where you were down to the last $100,000 in cash or something. And how long could you possibly go on and have a staff and you had proposed closing up shop? Just for comparison, where are you now? What’s your annual revenue? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:   
Just over four million, and we’ve been awarded some new contracts. So we’ve grown exponentially in the last few years. We’ve hovered just under the two million mark. Our last fiscal year, we hit that two million threshold where we said, no, we have to get an audit. So, but that was a very exciting mark to hit. So we just completed our first audit and successful and clean opinion, I guess the terminology is. And now with our housing, we’ve catapulted into the $4 million range and new contracts on the horizon in the next few months. 

Lee Wochner:   
And now you’re housing women and children, and you serve over 1,500 people a year to try to help them turn around. Is that the right number? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:   
Yeah, I would say that’s accurate. Yes. 

Lee Wochner:   
That’s an incredible achievement. So in your role of being the executive director of the Center for Living and Learning, what does your role involve? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:   
I’m laughing because it’s like before, I used to not sleep worrying about money. Now I don’t sleep thinking about how to manage it and spend it and pass on it, which is a good problem to have. 

Lee Wochner:   
Yeah. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:   
I would say my role is not always the traditional executive director. I don’t consider myself a fundraiser, although I am the one that gets, with a grant writer and a board member, our contracts. But it’s, again, you know, many of them are based on our performance, and they know us. I’ve still got my hands in overseeing some of the programs. I’m trying to transition out of that as we build up our leadership just under me. So we’ve operated with just a couple of program managers and all line staff. And now as we’ve gotten up to, I don’t even know what it is now, 10 or 14 government contracts, we’ve had to bring in outside leadership to build up our talent pool in there. I’m still reviewing invoices to contracts, signing off, sometimes checking bookkeeping, you know, just things that you’re like, wait, I’m maybe, you know, and it’s not a power trip thing that I shouldn’t be doing this. It’s just not a good use of my time. So we’re just building up our infrastructure because, as I’m sure you’re aware with government contracts that maybe end in a year, you’re never quite sure how much do you build up this infrastructure and then just have to let them go and how much is consultants and how much is employees. So now that we have a few multi-year projects and things that look like they’ll be renewed pretty regularly, we’ve just started building that up so then I can, you know, spend less time on overseeing programs and more in the planning and policy and promotion of the organization.  

Lee Wochner: 
Yeah, we’re going to reopen. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
I’ve never made contracts, so be careful what you wish for, but… 

Lee Wochner: 

And we’re back with Maria Alex Alexander, Executive Director of the Center for Living and Learning in Los Angeles. So during the commercial break, Alex, you were talking about 14 years ago, just before the turnaround, at the Center for Living and Learning, and you had lost your main funding source, which was car donations, and getting people to donate cars and then taking the money and applying it to your mission. Can you talk about that period? What was it like? Because we’d love to find out what it was like and then what you did and how it’s been going since then. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 

It was extremely nerve-racking because revenues were decreasing yearly for a few years in a row. We were down to a limited amount of cash, very limited. My plan was to ask the board, let’s shut down within three months, and I’ll stay and finish out any requirements and get rid of staff. But let’s go out giving them some pay and some extra benefits and, you know, let’s go out on good terms. We had been advocating for various policies that were passed, and we were hoping to reap the benefits of those policies, but we did not know if those were gonna come to fruition. The board said, why don’t you hang in there, let’s see if any of these things come through that you were working towards. And thankfully, they did, because during that time, people who really didn’t understand, I think, were advising on individual donor campaigns and various things that were going to take a while to establish and build out. I just kept saying, we’re going to shut down, and we can’t get large foundation grants. It’s not going to save us. We need government contracts. And that’s what saved us. 

Lee Wochner: 
Okay. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
We couldn’t turn it around with all the traditional ways that nonprofits have various diversified funding streams. There wasn’t time. 

Lee Wochner: 
But the key was telling your story, getting your story out there because, I mean, your story was one of success, and it’s a story everybody wants because you assume that people can be lifted up and reintegrated into society and contribute back to society, and you had proved it. We just had to go tell it. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yes, exactly. Originally, I think when I first met you, I wasn’t comfortable sharing my story. Just something you pointed out was that I didn’t have to worry about ego and not wanting to be the center of attention, that I should be sharing that story as the leader. That was my concern. I had never voiced it, but it was that it’s not all about me. But it turns out it was to get into those spaces, in those rooms, to share my story, but then turn around and say there’s so many others like me. So getting into those spaces with my story helped the policy and advocacy, and being in those spaces, and then the turnaround generally in the community around wanting to spend money on reentry services. Peer services became popular. We were doing it since 2002, but it became popular. And so we were in the right spaces at the right time. But it took years of building those relationships and being able to be in those spaces at the right time. 

Lee Wochner: 
So you were in this period where you were down to the last $100,000 in cash or something. And how long could you possibly go on and have a staff, and you had proposed closing up shop? Just for comparison, where are you now? What’s your annual revenue? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Just over four million, and we’ve been awarded some new contracts. So we’ve grown exponentially in the last few years. We’ve hovered just under the two million mark. Our last fiscal year, we hit that two million threshold where we said, no, we have to get an audit. That was a very exciting mark to hit. So we just completed our first audit and received a successful and clean opinion. I guess that’s the terminology. Now, with our housing, we’ve catapulted into the $4 million range and have new contracts on the horizon in the next few months. 

Lee Wochner: 
And now you’re housing women and children, and you serve over 1,500 people a year to try to help them turn around. Is that the right number? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Yeah, I would say that’s accurate. Yes. 

Lee Wochner: 
That’s an incredible achievement. So in your role as the Executive Director of the Center for Living and Learning, what does your role involve? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Because it’s like before, I used to not sleep worrying about money. Now, I don’t sleep thinking about how to manage it, spend it, and pass on it, which is a good problem to have. I would say my role is not always the traditional executive director. I don’t consider myself a fundraiser, although I am the one that, along with a grant writer and a board member, secures our contracts. Many of them are based on our performance, and they know us. I’ve still got my hands in overseeing some of the programs. I’m trying to transition out of that as we build up our leadership just under me. We’ve operated with just a couple of program managers and all line staff. Now, as we’ve grown to, I don’t even know what it is now, 10 or 14 government contracts, we’ve had to bring in outside leadership to build up our talent pool. I’m still reviewing invoices to contracts, signing off, and sometimes checking bookkeeping. Just things that you’re like, wait, maybe, you know, and it’s not a power trip thing that I shouldn’t be doing this. It’s just not a good use of my time. So we’re just building up our infrastructure because, as I’m sure you’re aware, with government contracts that maybe end in a year, you’re never quite sure how much do you build up this infrastructure and then just have to let them go, and how much is consultants, and how much is employees. Now that we have a few multi-year projects and things that look like they’ll be renewed pretty regularly, we’ve just started building that up so then I can spend less time overseeing programs and more on planning, policy, and promotion of the organization. 

Lee Wochner: 
So tomorrow night, I’m having dinner with a dear friend who is a very smart guy who was president of my theater company board years ago. And I mean, we’re just really good friends. So when we were going to build another theater downtown and have a second space, I come from a construction family. So I really wanted to go down there and be part of building that theater and banging some nails and all of this. And of course, as the board chair, he felt that I should be doing fundraising and other stuff, right? And so, and he could, I can be a blockhead, and he could see that I was determined to go down and help build this theater. So finally, he said to me, what do you do if you’re the best lawyer in LA and you’re the best window washer? And I said, all right, you’re gonna say, don’t be the window washer. And he said, no, I’m gonna say you don’t split your focus, you choose one. And I never forgot that. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Here. 

Lee Wochner: 
And essentially what he’s talking about is opportunity cost. So if I’m doing that, I’m not raising money, right? Or I’m not in that capacity, or in my current position, if I’m not leading strategy with clients, and I’m doing, I don’t know, paperwork, then I’m miss-assigned, and I’ve miss-assigned myself. So I would encourage you to build out that infrastructure. And I know you’re smart enough to do that anyway. You don’t need any advice from me because, I mean, look at everything you’ve achieved, and I think you’re just gonna grow further from here, but you gotta get out from under some of this other stuff. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Thank you, yes. And we’ve already begun. So, and we’ve learned to build in staff development and consulting into our proposals, which I never knew to do until the last few years. And now I put it in everything so I can hire social workers and some accounting and finance, and I don’t have to commit, you know, it’s basic. I learned. 

Lee Wochner: 
Yeah, very good. Now, what kind of marketing do you do? How do people, either funders, donors, or people who need it, find out about the Center for Living and Learning? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
Lee, that’s the part we’re not doing. And I’m laughing because I know the marketing guy’s eyes are going to get real big and say, what? So well, for our client base, we usually don’t have to look for people. Our contracts that we continue to expand on aren’t necessarily expanding the number of people. It’s just expanding the services we’re providing to them. 

Lee Wochner: 
Yeah, that’s from you. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander: 
So that’s not usually it, but we can go out to resource fairs and promote or go to our partners. But representing our social enterprise, our nonprofit, we just don’t really have a strategy right now. And so I sit on an LA reentry partnership steering committee that’s hundreds of agencies and government agencies. I just saw their comms strategic plan, and it but it was very direct and I was like my gosh I want this so we don’t have a marketing strategy our website is outdated and I’m just putting this right out there because you could go look at it and see it and I think it’s really important that we’re missing 

You know, and some of our foundations, we have to get the names up on that website, which we’ll have somebody do. But some of our funders have said, you know, you guys do this tremendous work and we don’t see it on there. We don’t know. And, you know, I’ve said we’re the best kept secret. That shouldn’t be a secret. 

Lee Wochner:  
Well, look, you’ve done a lot. You brought the organization from zero and sinking fast, right? And you’ve had metastatic growth over the past several years. So it’s okay. I mean, you I don’t know that blame gets anybody any further in life, but recognizing, you know, what brought you here and then how to get forward because the incredible story that you have, right? Could still get there in a bigger way. 

But also there’s the incredible story of all of the people you impact through your work. And certainly my experience of both politicos and foundations is they want to be recognized and they need to be recognized because recognition equals power, right? When you think of a totem pole, right? You get the sun god at the top and right below the sun god is the chief. He needs to be up there so everybody can see he’s in charge and he accrues more. 

That’s the way fame works. So yeah, you’ve accomplished a lot and thinking about next steps is a next step conversation, I think. And I did look at your website, of course. I’m always interested in you guys and what you’re up to. And I noticed the things you’re talking about, but I don’t have any criticism. It’s just time to fix those things. Okay. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
Yeah, and very data. 

Lee Wochner:
So what are your plans for the future with Center for Living and Learning? Is your board having a discussion? Do you guys know where you go from 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
We just completed a strategic plan and so we want to continue to explore the social enterprise opportunities. It’s not a viable enterprise on its own. We receive funding from various contracts to pay the wages. So we do have a grant now to kind of assess where we’re at and, you know, put in some supports I guess for the social enterprise but we really want to explore that. Housing may be it, we may be looking for property or applying for property under the proposition one to purchase a home. At some point we do we do need our own building or space we need open space and we continue to take more space in the building that we’re in 

We like this area because we’re centrally located to the people that access our services. But I would say long -term goals are really looking at property short -term or maybe a home, purchasing one of the homes that we lease. 

Lee Wochner:  
Just to make sure, just to help people understand, when you say social enterprise opportunities, can you define that?

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
Yes, a business with a purpose. there’s various definitions for social enterprises and some are for -profit businesses that have some kind of common good. But the social enterprise that we operate is considered an employment social enterprise, referred to commonly as an ESC. And we are funded through the City of Los Angeles as a social enterprise site. 

Lee Wochner:  
Just to make sure, just to help people understand, when you say social enterprise opportunities, can you define 

To provide paid work experience in conjunction with REDF, who is a foundation who their whole mission is to support social enterprises. And we just received the California Rise Grant, which is the one I was referring to to really put in some other supports for our people served by the social enterprise. But it’s also our goal is to continue to explore how do we provide services that we receive revenue for as opposed to donations or government grants, right? So if we’re selling an answering service to a business, that’s part of our social enterprise. If we are providing a project for a nonprofit. Maybe some of them will say, we were conducting surveys. We’d like our people to give out your number, we’ll pay you. They call you, you take the survey and then put the information, send it to us. So we’re selling a service. That service we’re selling is providing employment opportunities for people with barriers to employment. So that would, I don’t know if that was a long way of saying it, but providing business or individual services for a fee that operates like a business but provides workforce opportunities. 

Lee Wochner:  
What I like about it is, excuse me, again, it should help nonprofit leaders think about different ways of leveraging their nonprofit to fund their mission. That’s why I asked. yep. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
Right, and when Covered California first came out, that was one. So we were enrollment counselors, but it was providing workforce opportunities. So that was part of our social enterprise. So we continue to morph and change. right now, we’re really looking for what’s the next version. 

Lee Wochner:  
Okay, we’ve only got a couple of minutes left and you are a super busy nonprofit executive who’s got to get back to her day. As we’ve heard, if there were three changes that we as a society could make that would help reduce the problems that lead to someone needing your help, what do you think we could do as a society? What would they 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
Investing in services in the community as opposed to incarceration. And not just for people that have done something to become involved in the criminal justice system, but even our families and our children because sometimes the issues affect our families and so as children. 

They can be impacted and it can affect their adulthood and they can end up into the same situations that us as adults or parents did. So services in the community. And did you say three? 

Lee Wochner:  
Well, if you’ve got three. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
I do have three. I would say, well, it’s related to services in the community, but treatment on demand. And how, guess you could say housing and treatment. So we don’t have enough treatment resources for people. And if they had treatment, then they might not end up in the criminal justice system or won’t return. And the third that I’m going to say that’s really important is for employers and businesses. 

To embrace fair chance hiring and stop the unnecessary background checks. Our insurance makes us run them now. We don’t have to make hiring decisions based on them, but we have to know who we hire. I’ve never run background checks until last year, and I’ve hired people with the ultimate violent records, and we’ve never, knock on wood, had an incident of violence here doing your due diligence in your hiring and interviewing will give you the candidate. You don’t need that background check, but if you run them, then still consider your candidate based on their experience or their strengths in your interview. And just let us come to work. 

Lee Wochner:  
If we’re gonna, if we as a society are gonna let the prison system be the final checkpoint in someone’s life, we’re just asking for trouble when they get released. I mean, it’s really that simple. And we’re gonna write off millions and millions of 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
And you know in your interview process, you have a good feeling when you’re interviewing what the indications are. I know all HR are trained to determine difficult personalities. there’s that from people without a record as well, right? We all look for that no matter what. 

Lee Wochner:  
Yeah. 

Lee Wochner: 
Alex, what’s the best way for people to connect with you if they want to reach out, have some questions? 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
My email would be good, Alex, a -l -e -x at center, the number four, living .org. Center, number four, living 

Lee Wochner: 
Awesome. Alex, it’s great to see you and I’ll probably run into you again sometime soon at the theater if no place else. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
Yeah, or something political. 

Lee Wochner:  
Or something political. The past month it’s been a fun political time. I’m having a good time. 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Lee Wochner: 
Very interesting changes. Hats off to you. I mean, so much pride for you and what you’re doing. So thank you so 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
Thank Thanks for having me. 

Lee Wochner:  
You bet. Thanks for being here. Have a great 

Maria “Alex” Alexander:  
You too. 

Jaclyn Uloth: 
Thanks for listening! We’re glad you came. That’s What C! Said is produced by Lisa Pham and engineered by Joe Curet. It’s available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Please like and follow the show. Visit Counterintuity.com to sign up and learn more.