Power your fundraising: John Gile on raising money and staying upbeat 

Lee Wochner:
Yes, things can and will get better. That’s the message from fundraiser extraordinaire John Guile of John Guile and Associates. And he should know because in this climate with everyone worried about the economy and what’s going to happen with the economy, John has helped to raise between 10 million and 20 million dollars for nonprofits and causes he’s working with. As part of that, he says, he gets to meet fascinating people and help change the world.

Which is the mission of nonprofits and, as he tells us, frequently works. How can you lay the foundation for your own fundraising? How should you diversify your revenue and why? What does it take to succeed in fundraising and what marketing do you need to do that? Fundraising expert John Guile shares all that and more in this uplifting and inspiring episode of How to Market Your Nonprofit.

Jaclyn Uloth:
Welcome to How to Market Your Nonprofit, the Counterintuity podcast featuring interviews with experts in marketing, fundraising, strategy, and leadership who offer how-tos and inspiration about how you can help your nonprofit succeed and grow during a time of chaos and change. Bringing his 25 plus years of experience in marketing, strategy, and nonprofit management, here’s our host, Lee Wochner.

Lee Wochner:
John, it’s great having you. Thank you so much for joining us today.

John Gile:
Thank you. It’s a beautiful sunny day in Los Angeles.

Lee Wochner:
Los Angeles truly is heaven, and the people who complain about Los Angeles have no idea how wonderful it is. So thank you for—

John Gile:
Agreed, agreed. I’m a lifelong Angeleno and I’m loving it every day.

Lee Wochner:
I’m a transplant of—holy cow—37 years, and I love it as well. You and I met last year because we serve on a board together, the Hollywood Community Foundation. And one of the things I responded to immediately was your desire to do things, as I think that whole board wants to, but it was really great. I heard it a lot from you—like, you want to do things.

And the other thing that registered with me that you talked about early on was the fact that you went on the homeless count. Can you talk briefly about the homeless count—what it is and why you did that?

John Gile:
Oh yes, of course. There is obviously in every major city a very serious problem—an egregious problem that keeps growing—is the homeless people on our streets. And in Los Angeles County, there’s an annual homeless count, which I’ve done for about five years now. And one would probably ask, how do they know how many homeless people there are?

Each year, there are thousands of volunteers that get together at night. We go out about 6 p.m. You are given a map of about eight blocks—they’re usually about one and a half square miles of census tracts—and you go and you count each homeless, what appears to be a homeless person. Some are obvious, some are not obvious. And you take data and note that down. All of that information is uploaded countywide into the system, and then that’s how they come up with the totals.

What I love about this count is you’re really walking—first of all at night, kind of between when we were there, looked like between 8 p.m. and 10:30—and you’re in these neighborhoods that you may drive through quickly or commute through. But when you’re walking there with others at night, it’s amazing.

You really see the simple lives that—many people are sitting on their front porch, and other people are making dinner or coming home from work or walking to night class or to the library. It’s crazy. There’s a lot going on. And you also see some people that are in grave distress. And then you can also see more pockets of homeless people in front of 24-hour convenience stores. On bus benches, there’s homeless people. But it was a very…

Lee Wochner:
Hmm.

John Gile:
It’s always an uplifting experience—to see the active volunteers. So you don’t actually engage with the people that seem to be homeless. You don’t talk with them or discuss anything with them or flash a flashlight under their tent. You make a far-off, arm’s-length count. It was, yeah, and it was a great experience. There’s a lot going on in Hollywood. A lot of good things happening in Hollywood.

Lee Wochner:
You just take notes.

Well, and so the reason I bring this up is—far ahead of the press, you were the first person I knew who said, “You know, I think the number of unhoused people is going down, because I walked all around Hollywood and I’m seeing far fewer.” And recently, the press has picked up on that story. And it’s always good to remind people that problems are fixable. They’re improvable or fixable or solvable.

And this seems to be one of them, because we’re making actual headway in Los Angeles.

John Gile:
It seems like we are. And I drive up and down Sunset Boulevard almost every day, and there’s a lot less encampments. I hope those people are getting temporary or permanent housing and not just moved to another block. I do see it.

I talk a lot about optimism being from Los Angeles. I was here in the ’70s, and smog was so bad we couldn’t go to our swim meet or our water polo game or our baseball game—we got called off the field. You couldn’t see the Hollywood sign from Hollywood, it was so smoggy.

One would say, “My God, L.A. will never come back from that,” right? Now there’s a million more cars and far less smog. In fact, the dangerous, “smoggy-get-off-the-field” days are non-existent now in Los Angeles.

You know, in the ’80s we had the crack epidemic, and people would say, “My God, you live in Los Angeles? Aren’t you afraid of being on the freeway?” You know, it was horrendous—the murder rate. And we got through that. We got through the earthquakes. This city gets through things.

And I hope and pray we get through this homeless crisis because it is a crisis. We can’t ignore it any longer.

Lee Wochner:
Well, there are plenty of crises now to get through, and I share your optimism actually. Because to be pessimistic is to throw in the towel. And I say to people all the time: I refuse to be pre-defeated. Being pre-defeated and cynical accomplishes nothing. So good for you, John.

John Gile:
All right, thank you.

Lee Wochner:
So, while serving on the Hollywood Community Foundation together and getting to know you, in addition to learning about your commitment to people and to community, I’ve gotten a sense of your powerful—what we used to call a Rolodex—your powerful address book and your fundraising prowess, which is going to be especially useful now, because I think we’re in a period when we’re going to need our nonprofits more than ever before.

And it seems to me that they have some challenges, but there are some opportunities that nonprofits are facing right now.

John Gile:
Absolutely. Not a day goes by when I don’t have a conversation with a nonprofit leader or a board member or executive director when there are challenges. And I’m definitely seeing organizations that are organized, have a strong message, and a strong board are getting through these times.

And others that perhaps did not have a plan—contingency planning is extremely important. And Lee, the overall thing that—if I was to—the first time I would ever talk to a nonprofit who wants to talk about how to manage—is diversification of revenue. Meaning, you want to have about 33%…

John Gile:
…government funding—that could be city, federal funding—33% from foundations and corporations, and 33% from events and individual high-net-worth people. Having a diverse revenue stream so that when you’re suddenly faced with a $200,000 grant that’s dismissed from a government entity, you can rely on your other sources to make up the difference. It’s critically important.

If you are solely focused—you have one major foundation donor and that’s how you get through every year—that’s a challenge. And the same if you’re 95% funded by the government. It’s very challenging. And that’s where we’re seeing the organizations that are having the most difficulty now—did not have diverse funding plans.

Lee Wochner:
Well, I love the percentages you just shared. There’s the first takeaway for listeners. And I want to come back to those topics because that seems really useful and forward-looking. But I want to ask first—to talk about John Gile & Associates.

So, John Gile & Associates is a public affairs firm headquartered in West Hollywood here in the greater Los Angeles area. And just to clear up any confusion for people, can you explain the difference between a public affairs firm—which you are—and a public relations firm?

John Gile:
I can do that for sure. I tell that story a lot because my father used to say, “What is it exactly that you do?” And my nephews ask me, “What is it you do, Uncle John?”

And let’s see—so if I was to sum it up, what I do on a day-to-day basis is I bring people together. But the official kind of difference—that really is what I do—I connect this person to that person, make things happen.

The official difference between public relations and public affairs: Public relations firms are those that engage with newspapers, television, radio, media, online media—to get publicity for the organization. So they have a publicist. And there are some really great public relations firms out there—lots of them in L.A.

Public affairs is really dealing with the public sector, and that means city council, supervisors, state assembly, state senate, and the federal government—and bringing elected officials’ awareness of organizations and the work that’s happening, and also engaging funding from those public sources. So that’s one tool of work that we do in public affairs.

Oftentimes, people think I’m a publicist. I’m definitely not a publicist.

Lee Wochner:
My ex-wife didn’t understand what I did at all, and she just started telling people, “Yeah,” she said, “Lee talks to people and they pay him.” I mean, she just couldn’t figure it out.

So how did you come to start John Gile & Associates?

John Gile:
Hahaha!

So I was involved with nonprofits. I was in political work at Chico State. I was in student government. And then I worked for the Muscular Dystrophy Association for many years. And then I was the CEO of Project Angel Food, which is a noted organization in Los Angeles.

I went there in—yeah, I started there in 1993 when it was a small organization operating out of a little church kitchen. We had 13 staff. I was there for about 16 years, and we grew to about 70 staff and a multimillion-dollar budget and serving about 1,500 people a day.

And I’m still actually consulting there. It’s kind of an organization where you can never really leave. So I’m their official ambassador, and I’m there—I handle their government relations and high-dollar kind of fundraising campaigns. We are embarked on a $55 million campaign right now for two new buildings on Vine Street in Hollywood.

So I really loved being CEO, and I wanted to do something new. And so that’s when I started my company in 2009–2010. It’s a very small company. I have seasonal staff and I have an assistant, and I have grant writers that we bring in—and we get things done.

We’ve raised, I think, between $10 and $20 million in the last 14 months on my last record. Yeah, so it’s been great. And, you know, I get to meet fascinating people and help change the world in some way.

Lee Wochner:
Wow.

John Gile:
Fascinating people—and help change the world in some way.

Lee Wochner:
And how did you become, as part of this, a professional fundraiser?

John Gile:
Well, it’s funny you asked that. I just love doing it. I just love doing it. I like it. I would say probably my mother taught me that years ago when I was a kid.

She used to tell me, “Don’t go around getting Halloween candy. Please go around and collect money for the poor.” She really did tell me that. And I still think, “Oh my God, that must have sunk in.”

Most people do not like fundraising. Most people don’t understand fundraising. I love it. And I have a way of bringing people together—and it’s been effective.

Lee Wochner:
That’s awesome.

So let’s talk about what it is you do for clients more specifically, just so people can understand the scope of your work. Like, what is it that you do for clients and how do you do that?

John Gile:
Sounds good.

So let’s say you are a nonprofit executive director, nonprofit board member. Let me take—let’s see—let’s do Debbie Allen, who everyone probably knows. Debbie Allen is an actress, dancer, award-winning producer of multiple television shows, and an incredible teacher.

She had a small dance studio in the Leimert Park area that was running at an old Denny’s restaurant, I think. And they needed more space, they needed to do more, they wanted to have a place where hundreds of young people and adults could come every day to learn about dance and the arts.

So she was building a new building on Manhattan Place and Washington Boulevard—the Rhymes Dance Academy. They were well along in a capital campaign but needed a final eight to ten million dollars.

Lee Wochner:
Hmm. Hmm.

John Gile:
So Debbie talked with me, we formulated a plan to reach that number, and then they engaged me. We went out and found the money, and she opened the studio—and it’s an amazing place right now. So that’s been an incredible, one of our great projects and a great success story.

Each client that we work with is different. Some are very formal and…

John Gile:
We meet once or twice a week and we have very formal meetings. Others are rather informal, where we’re kind of going and we know we need to reach our goal. Most of them say, “We need one, two, three, ten million dollars by December 31.” So my work is very—you can see here’s what’s being done. That’s what’s stressful about my work: it’s very—you have to be very accountable. And the accountability is in the numbers. The money has to come in.

So what I’m really proud of, Lee, is that I often tell people, “I’m a consultant that pays their own way.” They’re like, “What do you mean by that?” Well, I’m going to bring you new money that’s going to cover the entire cost of me—and then way over that. So—and that usually works out. So I pay my own way in the world.

Lee Wochner:
Wow, very good. Can you share with us some other clients that you’ve worked with?

John Gile:
Sure! Let’s see—there’s a lot. I mentioned Project Angel Food, Debbie Allen Dance Academy. We worked with the California Fire Foundation, and that’s for the amazing Firefighters Memorial that’s going in Capitol Park in the State Capitol.

I’m representing Friendly House Los Angeles, which is the oldest recovery home for women in the United States. It’s on Normandy Avenue, and that’s kind of a legacy fund endowment campaign—hopefully to raise a million dollars to store up their reserves.

I represent the Oakland Symphony, which has an incredible 85-year history in Oakland. It’s a Black, African American–led symphony that has a really rich history in the music world. And that is also for a legacy and endowment campaign fundraising.

We represent the National Queer Arts Center in San Francisco. That’s part of the San Francisco Gay Men’s Chorus, which is another legacy organization. I really like legacy organizations. It was born on the horrible day of the assassination of George Moscone and Harvey Milk, and it’s grown into an organization that is nationally recognized. It was the first gay chorus to buy a building—they bought a building on Valencia Street in the Mission District.

So we’ve been engaged to help raise funds to finalize the renovations and the restoration of this beautiful building. And there’s a lot more.

Lee Wochner:
There is—you sent me pages and pages of corporate history, which—my eyes fell out of my head. I’m very impressed.

Well, and I think we both know there’s been a lot of change in our world—globally, locally, economically, sociopolitically—recently. And we get a lot of questions from our nonprofit friends and clients about fundraising, and what they need to do to do better, and how they can adjust.

And so, in addition to knowing what a great guy you are, I thought you would have the answers to some of these questions to support kind of the message we’re putting out. So let me ask—let me dive into that. Let me dive into change and the current climate here.

So a few weeks ago, you and I were meeting on something we work on together—we were at a firehouse, a fire station in Los Angeles. It was pretty cool. And we were talking about recent developments in funding and granting. And we talked about many government agencies and nonprofits have had money that was awarded to them clawed back. So local governments and state governments are maybe not getting the money that was apportioned as the federal government retracts.

And, as we all know, scores of the grantees of the National Endowment for the Arts provide examples. I know lots of performing arts organizations, as an example, and museums and such got their money—they’re not getting grants. Some were—the government was trying to claw them back. And now, of course, PBS and National Public Radio—those are the major stories. There are lots of other stories behind that.

So I had asked you at the time—in this climate, if you’re a nonprofit and you’ve been awarded a grant, are there any steps you can take to ensure that you’re actually going to receive the funding?

John Gile:
It’s difficult, for sure. One recent example is federal grants that were awarded and administered by the county to Project Angel Food. And this is one of the areas where I could probably best define our public affairs work.

They were facing a loss of about $370,000 in federal funding that was passed through the county, and it was being held up at HHS. The relationships with the federal government entities are impossible now since January. It used to be interactive with grantees—you could actually call someone on the phone. All of that has been taken away—on hunger programs and health programs. It’s just insane.

However, we were able to reach every one of the members of our delegation—our congressional delegation. It was fast action—within days, we were able to reach the staff director in every member of Congress on the Hill that represents Los Angeles. It’s all Democrats and one Republican. And we got the conversation going.

We were able to, number one, get the information, and number two, get the funding restored—which was fantastic. That’s not the case for everybody. We did see one example globally—that all the President’s Emergency AIDS Relief money was 100% restored. That was very good news.

And I think the overall message that I try to tell people is that this is a temporary situation. We are not capable of living like this permanently—with the hatred and the discrimination and the book banning and the removing African-American names from buildings. This is a temporary situation, right? When we are not allowed to talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion—which are three of the best words in the English language.

Lee Wochner:
Hehehehehe.

John Gile:
This is a temporary situation, and we have to get through this. One part that’s not in my bio is I’m an 11th generation—my family came here in 1634. And I have all of the stories of my ancestors. And we have seen tough times before in this country—and we got through it. And I hope and pray that we move through this.

So, we’re in a temporary situation. That’s a long answer. How do you get the money back? Some are not going to get the money back, right? The arts organizations are really struggling. The Endowment for the Arts—many of our clients, Oakland Symphony and the Queer Arts Center—lost a lot of money.

So we go into action, and we reach out to high-net-worth individuals to make up the difference. There is an incredible amount of private wealth in California. And there are also some wonderful progressive leaders with that money who are giving to make up these deficits.

Lee Wochner:
I appreciate your optimism, and I enjoy it. I don’t think I’m optimistic about next Tuesday, but I am optimistic about the further arc of the universe.

And I cannot disengage from the original Star Trek, which raised me to believe that the future is brighter. Just—yes, in the—

John Gile:
Right, right. I like that.

Lee Wochner:
In the future, the Federation—we can all work together, and you see all sorts of people there, and we figure it out. And eventually, we even become friends with the Klingons. It’s just better. So I’m working toward that every day.

So if you’re a nonprofit that has relied on government money—too much so—what’s the best course of action to adjust quickly?

John Gile:
Hopefully, you have a strong relationship with your elected official—whether it’s city, county, state, or federal—to really engage with them and see what is on the horizon. How they can make up the difference.

Some organizations are having to collaborate and merge with other organizations. I’m always—I don’t like in the world of nonprofits when they say, “Well, that’s our competitor.” We’re not really competing. And some nonprofits use that word—“That’s our competitor.”

Lee Wochner:
I’m in it.

John Gile:
I was taught years ago that we live in a world of abundance, and these donors and individuals are smart people. They decide where to give their money. And we have to continue that thought.

And then figuring out—you know, talking, having strong conversations. There’s some great foundation leadership in Los Angeles County. The California Community Foundation, the Weingart Foundation—have honest and serious conversations with these large foundations, these institutional foundations, because they actually oftentimes will adjust their funding guidelines by listening to the people that are actually doing the work.

Lee Wochner:
When I was running the Performing Arts League here in Los Angeles 25 years ago, there were some people who would talk about competition. Because originally we served only theaters, and I wanted to bring the music and dance people in—who wound up being wonderful people—and we grew the whole pool.

And what I knew was, they were the same ticket buyers. People who went to the opera or the symphony or ballet or whatever were also theater attendees. And I knew that demographic pretty well. The real competition was not among that. The real competition was among people staying home and watching TV. I mean, that was the real competition.

And you’re really on there about that. That’s why I’m taking a moment here, John, because I utterly agree with you. This notion of “pie”—that there’s only so much pie to go around, and if you get a bigger slice, I have a smaller slice. There are very few mindsets that drive me as crazy as this one.

Because if you’ve ever gone to a restaurant and ordered pie—if you have the last slice of pie, you know what they do? They make more pie. It’s crazy. There’s always more pie. And the idea that I’m in competition with you for pie is ludicrous. And it’s just small thinking, and it doesn’t lead us to a better place.

John Gile:
That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. You’re absolutely right.

Lee Wochner:
We’re gonna take a break here, a short break. But when we come back, John and I are gonna talk about how nonprofits of all sizes can make themselves more attractive to funders and donors of all sorts. Stick around.

Jaclyn Uloth:
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Lee Wochner:
All right—and we’re back with John Gile of the public affairs firm John Gile & Associates. During the break, I was saying to John, we should hang out together even more because I appreciate his open-minded, forward-looking perspective. So thank you, John.

John Gile:
Thank you, Lee. You know, it’s a reminder—there are lots of people doing really great things, not only in Los Angeles, but all around the country.

Lee Wochner:
Yeah, I think the worst thing would be to succumb to despair because it just doesn’t lead anywhere. Cynics and skeptics—skeptics can be healthy. Skeptics ask questions. Cynics just destroy initiative. And they just bug me.

Any time I can try to talk a cynic back over into the light, I’m happy—which is infrequently, because they’re just wired for cynicism. And that was a cynical statement. So, see—I haven’t given up on that.

John Gile:
Stop.

Lee Wochner:
So John, let’s talk about what nonprofits should be doing and could be doing right now. What are the—and let’s even cover the basics because we have a wide range of listeners—what are the most important things a nonprofit can do to be successful in fundraising? What would you say is the trench work here?

John Gile:
Well, besides the diversified donor base, it’s making sure you have a board of directors that’s engaged and active and doing things—acting as ambassadors and providing financial support.

You’ll see a wide range of board involvement on nonprofits. Some are, “I’m on the board, but we never meet,” which is dangerous, right? “I’m on the board and I’ve never seen the financials,” which is dangerous. I encourage an active board.

Hopefully, if you’re a million or over, you have 20 individuals that are actively engaged and know what the mission is, and that are really helping. The board is really there to help the organization advance.

And then provide very clear messaging. In these really challenging times, people say, “Well, how are you raising all this money?” Here’s what I’m doing: I’m getting out and telling the story. I just—I love doing that.

Lee Wochner:
Hmm.

John Gile:
We take a client—a CEO or a board member—to go meet with the philanthropist, meet with the foundation head, meet with the senator. “What are we gonna do?” You’re gonna go out and tell them your story. You never know who’s listening, right? And that’s how this works. That senator may be with another philanthropist the next day and say, “You know, I just heard from this clinic that could really use your help.” And that’s what I recommend they do.

I’m not being specific on what they can do right now, but—organize. I have a multitude of clients at different skill levels, Lee. And I can’t tell one on Tuesday, “Why aren’t you doing what this one I had that great meeting with on Monday is doing?” Because it doesn’t—like, it’s so funny you mentioned a Rolodex.

I represent a legacy organization—I’m not going to tell you who it is—but I was also working with them eight or nine years ago, and there was a very engaged 35-year executive director—an older woman who was there. She had a Rolodex. And you would flip through the Rolodex—there was Barbara Sinatra, there was Barbra Streisand, there was Kirk and Anne Douglas, there was Ringo Starr. Seriously.

And I’m there again working with them—they’re really having challenges. And I’d say, “Where is that Rolodex?” Because when we—literally, in those days, when we needed money, we would just get on that thing and call. Do you know that the young staffs don’t know what a Rolodex is?

I laughed when I saw it in your notes. They said, “What are you talking about, John?”

Lee Wochner:
Yeah, that’s why I took the time to explain it. Yeah, I was watching Jon Stewart last night, and he made a joke about Andy Rooney, and then he took the time to explain it to his audience. Yeah, so—

John Gile:
Yeah. And so honestly, the basics is getting out and telling the story.

I have some CEOs and board members where I can say, “I need two hours with you for call time.” And we will do call time—and that means calling folks on the phone. If you have a donor or a volunteer or a trustee, they actually want to hear from you.

The worst thing is to have someone who gave you $10,000 last June and say, “I never heard from them again.” So they are successful organizations when they have an engaged CEO and board member who will do call time with me. And you learn so much from that.

I have other organizations—I will sit with them on a Thursday: “Let’s call.” And they’re like, “I can’t call. It’s Thursday at 2 p.m. We’ll wait till tomorrow.” And then Friday comes: “You know, I can’t call on a Friday afternoon. Let’s wait till Monday.” They do not want to call people.

Lee Wochner:
Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I like to ask people for money. I do. I just like to ask people for money. I’ve been asking people for money for various causes for—I don’t know—over 30 years. And when I started my theater company, I asked people for money right away. And I remember, I started that theater company on $7,500…

John Gile:
So I guess—getting out and telling that story.

Lee Wochner:
From eight different people. I remember everybody who was one of those eight people—seven of them put in $1,000, and one put in $500—and we were launched. And we’re still around 33 years later.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Right? That’s part of their legacy. They are founding donors—and I still know some of them.

John Gile:
Isn’t that great? Of course you remember those first donors. Yeah, what a great story.

Lee Wochner:
When you don’t ask people for money, you haven’t given them the opportunity to be part of the solution. I mean, sometimes I’ll be—and I hope I don’t get a million emails from this—but I’ll be like, “They went and did this and they didn’t approach me for even $10.” I might’ve contributed something.

Years ago, again when I was running the Performing Arts League, I went to meet with one of our best small theaters in town. They do incredible work. I was a big fan—still a fan—and I went over and I said to them, “You should ask for money. You know, I’ve been coming here for years. You’ve never asked me for money.” And I told them, “Ask me for money. And when you send me the thing asking for money, send it to everybody else.” And they still didn’t ask me for money. They just weren’t going to do it.

John Gile:
My gosh. Right. Yeah—so then he assumed, “Well, they must not need my money.”

Lee Wochner:
Yeah. It doesn’t hurt to ask. I mean, I was also the boy who would ask girls to dance while the other boys were lined up inside, sitting there, looking at girls, wishing they could dance with them, right? So you have to be willing to be rejected. It’s okay. If they say no, it’s okay. Somebody else will say yes.

John Gile:
Isn’t that amazing? Yeah. Absolutely.

Right—and another strong point for organizations: the best organizations have strong lists, and they work their lists. And if I walk into an organization—can I see your lapsed donor list? Your active donor list? Lapsed donor lists are rich with possibilities. That means people that gave like $2,500 and over, and they haven’t given in 18 months or more. Where did they go? Why did they stop giving? That’s valuable information.

An active call list and donor list is really important. I have some clients—they get on that phone and someone will say, “I’m happy, I’d love to do that $10,000.” And they’ll say, “Let’s just do this right now. I can take down your credit card number.” And it works.

Lee Wochner:
That’s awesome. So for people to succeed in campaigns and fundraising, in supporting board members who are doing asks—what kind of marketing support do they need?

John Gile:
They need a strong message. They need to be able to answer the “what if” and “what does your organization do?”—answer that question in that elevator pitch. So hopefully, in, you know, two pages, they can understand it.

They need to have a strong understanding of the financials—how the money is going to be spent and why it’s needed right now. And then they have to have the ability to respond to questions that people—people always ask that question: “How much—what is the percentage that goes to administration?” And that’s such a difficult question, because you really can’t identify—and you can’t tell the effectiveness of an organization by looking at their tax returns, right?

It’s like—you could never tell what type of personality or effective human being someone is by looking at their individual tax returns. So that question that board members get asked a lot—so many donors ask, “What percentage goes to admin?”—they should have a way of answering that.

Lee Wochner:
Mm-hmm.

John Gile:
Exactly.

Marketing as well—the larger organizations—some use very effectively Instagram and Facebook and other means, TikTok and different sites. Less now, but we were raising a lot of money on Facebook and Instagram. It seems like it’s really died down quite a bit. I think it just got oversaturated.

Lee Wochner:
Mm-hmm.

The nice thing about social media—and email newsletters in particular—email appeals and email newsletters still get a high open rate. They perform really well for people. If you’re a smaller organization, you have one paid staff—yourself, or two or something—you can still put out emails. You can make the phone calls and have the coffees you need to have to raise some money.

But you can also email hundreds—or if you’re lucky, thousands—of people on a list. So marketing definitely has a role to play here in fundraising.

John Gile:
Absolutely. And how your organization is portrayed.

We’ve crafted some very effective email campaigns. You have to make it easy for people to give, easy to understand. You would know this better than me, but—what is the average time they’re looking at an instance? It’s like—what is it—45 seconds nowadays?

Lee Wochner:
Well, I can tell you for sure: stat—people on a mobile device—people in our age range will wait eight seconds for a page to load. But—although I won’t wait eight seconds!—younger people will be gone in four. It’s gotta load right away. And so it may seem absurd…

John Gile:
Yeah.

Lee Wochner:
But speed issues—speed of load on a mobile device—is incredibly important for a campaign to succeed. Because people will just bail. If it didn’t come up, they’re gone.

John Gile:
Right.

One campaign that’s going right now with a client—they had the federal cuts. They immediately went into action on Facebook and Instagram. There’s even—then a donor called me and said, “I want to contribute to this, but they should have”—kind of an old-school donor—“they should have a barometer that shows where we are on progress.”

So I called the agency. Do you know that they had the barometer up within six hours? And others would say, “What is a barometer?” You’ve got to have fast action—especially nowadays. Fast action. And they’re going to get to $300,000–$400,000. And, you know, I think we’re on the seventh day of the online campaign. Isn’t that amazing?

Lee Wochner:
That is amazing. And again, fuels optimism.

So—if you found, John—if you found a great organization that you really, really believed in their mission, but their marketing and their message weren’t great, their website didn’t come across well, board makeup was off—what would you advise them to do first?

Like, “God, they do really important work, and all of their marketing is hopeless”—where should they start?

John Gile:
They should start by—back to the message. Clear messaging. What is it exactly you’re doing? What is your front-facing messaging that you want to have?

And there are some subtle things that people don’t notice. What is the look on the people’s faces that are in your Instagram posts or your Facebook posts? Do they properly reflect who you’re serving? Are you representing exactly what the organization is doing? Are you representing that clearly?

Sometimes, you know, when you’re in the trenches, you’re not thinking about what the public is seeing when you’re talking to them.

Lee Wochner:
Yes, that’s exactly—yeah. And you know, they’re doing the work, which we want them to do. But like—I had a discussion yesterday with a nonprofit on the East Coast. And I know, because they’re related to parts of my own life, I know how important their work is, but their message is not getting across at all. And their materials kind of look like a flea market—you know, just various things arrayed on different tables.

I said, “There’s no immediate takeaway here,” is part of the struggle. And so we have to solidify the message so people get it right away—exactly as you talk about. If you don’t know what your message is, I just don’t know how you build from there. So when we’re working with clients, we always start with: What’s the message? What are your goals? And what’s the message? What do you do? How are they related?

John Gile:
Yeah, and I like it. I like something that’s easily recognizable. An organization we’ve worked with in New York City—you see their brand and you just feel good when you see their brand. And the imaging is the same over the years, and it really is very cool because it’s a brand that’s noted.

And organizations don’t need to—like, let’s use fall colors. Now let’s use—you know, they change every time. So you don’t even know: What is the organization? What is the message here?

The other point that’s important is I try not to use the image of despair, because people don’t want to support a sinking ship. So I’ve seen some people sending out emails like, “We’re going to have to close our doors if you don’t help us.” That’s not what you want to send out, because you’ll turn people away.

Lee Wochner:
Exactly.

Once again, I utterly agree. And I used to get fundraising appeals from people who essentially were like, “We have this big hole—we need you to fill the hole.” So great, there’s a big hole in the ground and you want me to pour more of my money into it. Why don’t we talk about the importance of your mission, what you’re doing, and how you’re achieving it—and rally me to your cause?

And it really is just a tonal shift. Sometimes I think we who volunteer or work in nonprofits know how hard it can be. And sometimes I think behind some of that is a little bit of, “Gee, I’m tired. I’m exhausted.” And so I try to do my little part to pick those folks up, because we know how important nonprofits are and the work they do. And I try to inspire them, because they need sustenance just like everybody else.

John Gile:
Absolutely. And on the side of marketing and fundraising—it changes. When we wake up tomorrow, there will be changes in how this is being done.

I remember the days we would identify a mail campaign of 150,000 pieces of U.S. mail, and we would know we’re going to generate $78,000.50 from this campaign. We could tell.

I mean, nowadays, what age of donor is going to the mailbox and opening that letter, reading the letter, and signing a check and sending it back? You know, we used to raise millions of dollars that way.

So I try to talk with a lot of nonprofits, and U.S. mail is still successful—although it’s costly—but it’s successful to reach your high-net-worth individuals of 70 and over.

Lee Wochner:
Mm-hmm.

John Gile:
And what’s amazing—at that age, they’re also reading those letters and thinking, “My trust attorney is talking to me about my will, and this organization is a likely place.”

Many organizations get these enormous checks and say, “I never met this person.” That person was receiving direct mail.

But now we’re transitioning, obviously, out of U.S. mail campaigns. They used to be so successful. I’m working on—I did mention—a PBS film project now. Thirty years ago, there was the first version—it’s called The Celluloid Closet—about portrayals of gay people in film.

And now the next one is Beyond The Celluloid Closet. They funded the first one with Lily Tomlin sending out letters in the mail—and they raised all the money to support that film. That’s not going to happen now.

But what is the next generation going to be of online fundraising and donor information? I still get a lot of U.S. mail appeals. Do you?

Lee Wochner:
Sure. I got one yesterday—and I actually filled it out and mailed it back. What can I say?

John Gile:
My God, I do too. I do too, because I’m like, “My God, they have to—they have to know that someone’s still looking at these and paying the way.”

Lee Wochner:
There you go. There you go.

And you know, just to wrap up the fundraising aspect of this discussion, I want to share a stat with you that I’ll bet you already know. Over the next decade in the U.S., $1.4 trillion per year is going to be transferred to the next generation—to Americans aged 45 to 60. $1.4 trillion in wealth transferred every year.

So isn’t it, John, a good time to ask for money?

John Gile:
It’s always a good time to ask for money.

There is a great deal of wealth. If you look at our societal issues—why is there so much homelessness? Why is all that? I mean, it is the gap between the rich and the poor. People in New York are buying $50 million apartments and not living in them. I mean, how is this happening?

The transfer of wealth—we do deal with a lot of family foundations and institutional foundations that we’ve had long-term relationships with. And we’re hearing more and more of, “My children and grandchildren are now running the board of the foundation, and they’re changing the mission. So you’ll have to contact them.” It’s really interesting.

But it is a good time to ask for money. Again, fine-tuning the message, building those relationships with people. There’s one large family foundation now that we’re trying to identify the grandchildren—because they live in Los Angeles. But we have a relationship with the founders of the foundation, but they say, “The kids are handling that now.”

But yes, it’s a good time to ask for money. It’s always a good time to ask for money.

Lee Wochner:
When it comes to asking for money, I would submit to you that the number one mistake is not to ask.

John Gile:
Absolutely.

And we have to remember—the main thing also is that people give to people. So—building those relationships.

I remember years ago, I was at a fashion event at Neiman Marcus in Beverly Hills. I had a philanthropist—major philanthropist—sitting at my table. I said, “Blake, I’m surprised you’re here. I didn’t know you supported this organization.”

He said, “I have no idea what they do, but I love the chair of the board—he’s a very dear friend of mine. So I’m giving them money.” That’s it.

Lee Wochner:
There you go. Exactly.

So John, I know we only have a couple minutes left because you have to go raise money for important causes. But I did want to ask you a couple other things related to this. And the first is—I like to talk about a life of meaning, right?

John Gile:
That’s right.

Lee Wochner:
So what makes this work that you do—fundraising for charities, and political campaigns, by the way, and social justice causes—what makes this work meaningful to you?

John Gile:
It’s really getting out and being with people—a diverse group of people—and seeing people at all levels, from the people being served by the organizations we work with to the major philanthropists.

It’s the beauty of the diversity of Los Angeles and California. I can’t stand around—I have to keep moving. And I have been posting, like, “Keep moving,” on my Instagram, on my Facebook. I’m at Runyon Canyon five times a week. I’m always saying, “Keep moving.”

And I am Catholic—not that Catholic—but I was raised Catholic. So I was fascinated—I was just reading the pope. And the pope spoke, I don’t know, two months ago, and he said—someone said, “What’s your advice?” He said, “Keep moving.”

And he said, “If you notice water in a stream—it’s getting life and giving life and moving along and seeing new things and rolling over rocks.” And then he said, “If you’ve seen water that’s stagnant, it’s turning dark and daunting. So keep moving.”

Lee Wochner:
That’s wonderful. What is it that makes you hopeful?

John Gile:
That’s a good question. I’m just—I’m optimistic. I have faith in the human spirit. And I really do believe—there’s so much darkness in the world right now—that goodness will prevail.

And not to assume things about people because of how they look or because of how they work and all of that—I think that’s important. To have conversations like the one we’re having now with people…

Lee Wochner:
Mm-hmm.

John Gile:
I love meeting people that I would—if I were just to stay in my own circle of friends—never meet and hear from. I think that’s really important, that we all do that. Get out of our comfort zone.

Lee Wochner:
Do you have any further advice you’d like to share with our listeners?

John Gile:
Don’t despair. Get out and tell your story. Keep moving—and smile.

Lee Wochner:
That’s fantastic. What’s the best way for people to connect with you if they want to contact John Gile?

John Gile:
Call me or email me. I’m an open book—call me. Email john@johngileinc.com. Reach through here, through you, or through the Hollywood Chamber. I would love to have conversations with those who are.

Lee Wochner:
Okay, well, we’ll put some of that in the show notes as well.

Hey John, thanks for being an uplifter. I mean, what a great time I’ve had speaking with you. I really appreciate it.

John Gile:
Thanks for inviting me, Lee. And you have a beautiful day.

Lee Wochner:
I will. Thank you. Appreciate it.

John Gile:
All right, take care. Bye bye.

Jaclyn Uloth:
Thanks for listening. How to Market Your Nonprofit is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Please like and follow the show. Visit counterintuity.com to learn more.