Radical ideas, Real results

Wendy White:
We don’t believe tough love is the answer. We work with loved ones on maintaining a connection and relationship while ensuring their own wellness and mental wellbeing. It’s about modeling change, having productive conversations, setting boundaries, and maintaining healthy interactions.

Lee Wochner:
What’s the best way to help someone deal with an addiction?

Tough Love? Velvet Glove? Or… something in-between?

Alcoholics Anonymous and its cousins help millions of people — but it’s not right for everyone, says Wendy White, CEO of Face It Together, whose radical approach to fighting addiction is making waves — and not just in addiction recovery.
Face It Together’s radical approach to addiction prioritizes overall life improvement over sobriety alone, backing up their approach with data tracking and personalized support, focusing on the individual’s broader social, economic, and personal context.
As we know from seeing results by agencies helping the unhoused, holistic support and individualized care can also revolutionize how you help your community.
Find out how Face It Together packs data tracking, peer counseling, and real human caring into a system that helps people rebuild… and how these methods might apply to your own work on this episode of “That’s What C! Said”

Jaclyn Uloth:
Welcome to the podcast that lightens the tension when things sort of get hard…
That’s What C! Said, the Counterintuity podcast, featuring interviews with leaders and doers who have helped to make our world a better place through their actions — and especially through marketing, communications, and embracing change. Here’s host Lee Wochner.

Lee Wochner:
Wendy, nice to meet you. Thanks for joining us today.

Wendy White:
Thanks for having me, Lee, I appreciate it.

Lee Wochner:
Boy, do we have a lot to talk about. There are so many issues surrounding this. Let’s start with what Face It Together does. What do you do?

Wendy White:
Absolutely. So Face It Together has been around for 15 years. We provide one-on-one peer coaching for drug and alcohol addiction for those with addiction, but we also have special programming for loved ones, which is unique. Being able to really help loved ones focus on their own wellness and get the right tools in their toolbox. We’re very data and science driven, and that really drives all the work that we do.

Lee Wochner:
And you guys seem to have a different approach to addressing addiction. Is that right? What’s the approach?

Wendy White:
Yeah, I definitely feel so. I think we do have a unique approach on a couple different levels. As I mentioned, we are very focused on data. We really look at the person as a whole, and we don’t actually spend time focusing on the substance, but really on their whole life. So, looking at their personal, social, and cultural capital, and identifying what areas we can improve, like their connections to the community and their family, spirituality, housing, employment, health, all of the pieces.

We also practice harm reduction. We don’t turn anyone away if they are currently using. A lot of the world looks at sobriety as the measure of wellness, and that’s not necessarily the case. We help people who maybe want to reduce their usage gradually. For example, if someone is drinking a case of beer a night and wants to get down to a six-pack, we work on that. Oftentimes, it does lead to sobriety, but we allow those baby steps if that’s the path they want to take. I equate it to dieting—if someone tells me I can’t have sugar again, the first thing I want to do is eat a cookie or a donut. So, we work on manageable steps, or complete sobriety if that’s the goal, helping people wherever they are on their journey.

Another unique aspect of our organization is our Loved One program. Often, loved ones only get support if the person in their life has sought treatment or services, usually involving a family day. Our Loved One program is open to anyone, even if the person in their life is still deep in their addiction. It focuses on the loved one, helping them with coping skills, setting healthy boundaries, and having productive conversations while maintaining their own health and wellness.

Lee Wochner:
I have known many people with drug and alcohol problems in my life. I was in some bands when I was in college, and in one band, I believe I’m the only member still alive due to drugs and alcohol. One of my dad’s friends, they belonged to the same hunting club where I grew up One of my dad’s friends was drinking a case of beer a day. And until I heard that and got a look at him and could see it, I didn’t think one could drink a case of beer a day. And I bring that up because you just brought that up. That’s an astounding number. Now, my dad would have a beer or two a day, right? I mean, German American cultural heritage. I’m having a beer with lunch. He was one of those guys. But he certainly never drank even a six pack a day, I don’t think. That’s an enormous amount of alcohol. And I think that that’s life ruining actually to have a case of beer a day. The thing that listening to you seems radically different here is one of the things you talked about is reducing the amount rather than saying, no, never, you can’t have any. And that seems radically different from.

For example, Alcoholics Anonymous.

Wendy White:
Yeah, and I think, well, there wasn’t a question there yet, but I’ll kind of give my two cents of, you know, I think a lot of organizations, because they do require sobriety, and a relapse or a reoccurrence of symptoms is common if somebody is working towards recovery or wellness. So we’re pushing people away at the time we should be connecting with them the most. And so being able to open up and have that safe judgment -free, stigma -free space allows us to be able to reach people that can’t get help other places or don’t feel comfortable getting help other places.

Lee Wochner:
How did Face It Together come to be?

Wendy White:
Yeah, that’s a great question. It was really a community effort, I would say. So our founder, I’m not the founder, I’m the current CEO, but our founder, he himself struggled with addiction. He had gone through treatment several times, struggled to stay well, which is often the story for people. And then he pulled together also as a man with means to get the best treatment, but still struggled. And so he pulled together community town hall events, including business leaders, others in the addiction space, healthcare, just really everybody invested in our community. And they looked at the addiction care landscape. And one of the outcomes of that and a gap that was identified was peer support. And so that’s when Face It Together came along.

Lee Wochner
Okay, so I’d like to talk a little bit about how the nonprofit actually works. So you’re in South Dakota, correct? Okay.

Wendy White:
Correct, we have offices in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, which is where we started. And then we also have an office in Colorado Springs.

Lee Wochner:
Colorado Springs I’ve been to, I’ve not been to South Dakota. So there are some fees for some treatments, is that right? But I gather from your website and looking at your 990 by the way, it looks like generally the door is open helping almost anyone, is that right?

Wendy White:
Yeah, I mean, addiction does not see socioeconomic status. And so we are here to help everyone from the unhoused to an executive at an organization. So a couple different ways to go about that. But our space is very intentional. It’s very bright. Our primary color is like a lime green. It’s very vibrant. Really wanting to create that space that exudes dignity and respect so that no matter. Who is coming through that door that they can feel that when they walk in. A lot of times when people are to the point where they’re looking for help, they don’t feel like they’re worthy of that respect. And we wanna make sure that everybody feels like they are. And then financially, we don’t turn anyone away due to lack of being able to pay. So we do have a self -pay model for those that can afford it or don’t qualify for grant funding. We do also actively seek out grants to support those that can’t afford. And then we also have a philanthropy program. So we use our donation dollars to also help support those that can afford services on their own.

Lee Wochner:
One of the things I was impressed about on your 990 tax return to the IRS was that your program service revenue is only 8%. So I mean, you’re intaking only 8 % in those sorts of fees. And if people can afford it, I think, you know, Planned Parenthood charges, lots of nonprofits charge for services. And hats off to you guys for taking in everybody. Like when you say people who are unhoused as an example, you know, good for you. On Friday, a very good friend called me out of the blue to say hi, which was nice, and we’re talking for 20 minutes. And sometimes you think, well, this is my friend, but why did he call me? And then toward the end, he said, I just want you to know, if you don’t hear from me for a month, from this week to this week, it’s because I promised my mom I was gonna go into rehab. And I said, oh, well, good for you, I guess, of making that pledge to your mom. And he said, I’ve stopped drinking. I haven’t had anything to drink in a month. OK. But I did promise my mom, and so I’m going to do that. And he’s a middle -aged man, so good for him. But your process doesn’t work that way, right? People don’t go into rehab with you, or do they?

Wendy White:
We’ll work with people wherever they’re at, but it doesn’t require, we try to be as undisruptive to people’s lives. We feel it’s important to get people the right tools to succeed in day -to -day life. So treatment certainly is helpful for some, it isn’t the answer for everyone. And so, you know, and it also can be challenging. You go to treatment, you are removed from all the things that are triggering you to drink or use drugs you know, making sure that you have the right coping mechanisms to get reacclimated to life. So our program is, it’s generally once a week that individuals work with a coach. So all of our coaches are people with lived experience. So they have either struggled themselves with addiction or they are a loved one of someone that has struggled with addiction. And so then through that process, we have our assessments that people take initially. So it’s not a diagnostic tool, but really just to see where people are at and what areas of their life they’re struggling with. And then through those coaching sessions, helping create goals, maybe identifying other support systems that are needed. Maybe they don’t have a primary care provider and they don’t know how to get one. We’ll help walk them through getting a primary care provider or they’re struggling with their housing and maybe there’s an organization we can connect them with. Whatever that might be, or maybe it’s a therapist, maybe they have some other co -occurring conditions that need to be addressed. So really looking at the person as a whole and then helping navigate them to the other pieces to help them on that journey.

Lee Wochner:
It’s remarkable listening to you. Everything you just said aligns with a client of ours, Weingart Center, in how they work with people who are unhoused, living on the street, or in their cars. Weingart looks at people as a whole, tailoring treatment to each individual, and then helps them gradually improve, providing the resources they need to become productive members of society. There’s a remarkable overlap there. Speaking of that, on your website, you talk about language. As a marketing and communications firm, we are very interested in language. You mention rejecting language that keeps millions of Americans from seeking help for addiction. What is that language?

Wendy White:
Well, there’s a lot of stigmatized language out there. A lot of it isn’t even language but the concept of who people think is struggling with addiction. We don’t use words like “alcoholic,” which is very common. We focus on person-centered language, saying “a person with addiction” instead of “alcoholic,” and avoiding terms like “druggy.” Such words are prevalent when people talk about addiction and reflect a lack of respect for individuals. There’s no socioeconomic status definition for addiction. Society often sees it as the person sitting on the street corner, but addiction affects everyone, from executives to anyone else. Using person-centered language helps us see the wonderful traits individuals have to offer the world.

Lee Wochner:
One of my teammates here at Counterintuity thanked me for my optimism, saying it had made him think about the news and other things over the weekend. I told him my optimism isn’t irrational; there are many good things and many things getting better. It’s remarkable the changes you can manifest in people when you take the high road, project optimism, and avoid grinding them down. Is that kind of where you’re coming from?

Wendy White:
Yeah, I think so. No matter who you’re talking about, whether it’s as a manager or supervisor, everyone generally wants to do good work. Life can throw curveballs, or situations can become overwhelming. Having that connection and someone to believe in them can make a world of difference. I often remind myself and others that most people are good people. All over the world, most people are good most of the time. But we rarely get that perspective from the news. Even good people make a bad decision once in a while, and we shouldn’t crucify them for that.

Lee Wochner:
Of course. You also say that you reject tough love. Why do you as an organization reject tough love?

Wendy White:
Looking at our Loved One program, we recognized around 2016 that there was a gap in support. Loved ones would call us desperate for help for the person in their lives—be it their spouse, child, or whoever. Society tells them to give tough love, let them hit rock bottom, and cut them out of their lives. But as a mother, I couldn’t cut my child out. What do you do then? There’s no support or resources for loved ones to care for their child, whether that child is 20 or 40. We don’t believe tough love is the answer. We work with loved ones on maintaining a connection and relationship while ensuring their own wellness and mental wellbeing. It’s about modeling change, having productive conversations, setting boundaries, and maintaining healthy interactions.

Lee Wochner:
I am a parent, and when my children were babies, they’d cry and cry. I was exhausted but would go pick them up. Early parenting classes taught us to let them cry it out, but I’m a baby picker-upper. When the baby cries, I’m going to respond. Isn’t it better for him or her and me to just go pick up the baby? I mean, it’s just.

Wendy White:
We all need picking up sometimes.

Lee Wochner:
But, you know, to argue the other side, what if you’re a family member or a friend of someone with an addiction problem and you’re just exhausted? Their behavior is exhausting. It’s wearing you down. I have another friend in exactly this situation with his adult child and no amount of treatment, counseling, anything is doing anything. I mean, what should one do?

Wendy White:
I mean, it certainly doesn’t give an excuse to be poorly treated. And so that’s where the boundaries come in. And so being able to say, you know, I want, you know, situationally, so it’s a little, you know, kind of specific to what might be happening. But, you know, I want to do this with you. But if you’re going to drink at this event, then I can’t go. Like, that’s OK. It’s not you’re not saying I don’t want anything to do with you ever. But I I’m not going to do this if this happens. Right. So it’s putting, framing it in a different way. And I think often, and I came into this work, I should be transparent in that. I mean, I came to work at Face It together five and a half years ago and I held a lot of societal stigma and my mind has been changed, obviously. But I held a lot of that societal stigma. And I think with that stigma, Generally, people come at things with a shameful approach. And so it is, you know, making the person with the addiction out to be bad. And it’s changing that conversation so that it is more positive, but yet still setting boundaries around what you are willing to do if something else happens. It’s all about what you will do as the loved one.

Lee Wochner:
So if I had a friend with a drinking problem, let’s say, and the person with the drinking problem came to see you, what would the process be like?

Wendy White:
So someone reaches out, whether they’re a person with addiction or a loved one, we have a first impressions team that meets with them initially, helps answer any questions that they might have, gets them access to our assessments, kind of talks through the coaching process. And then once that piece has completed, then we match them up with the coach that makes the most sense. So as I mentioned, we have offices in Sioux Falls and Colorado Springs, but we do coach. By phone or video. So we have coached across the country and even in a couple other countries. So we have a lot of coaches available to get that best matched lived experience. And that may be based on the substance that they used, it may be that they’re both moms or whatever it might be. So getting them paired up with that right coach and then from there, the coaching sessions are about 45 minutes usually once a week, but certainly if people are early in the process and they feel like they need more support, it might be twice a week. And then we have some individuals that have coached with us for years and they might just do a check -in once a month, every six months. It really depends on the individual and where they’re at. And then it’s really focused on goal setting, preparing for different situations, different things like that.

Lee Wochner:
If someone is drinking himself into oblivion, right? Is it, and I’m sad to tell you, I’ve known many hims and hers who’ve been doing that. And then they came to your program, I just want to make sure I understand, they could reduce the behavior. And so having a glass of wine or two a night is better than drinking two, three bottles of wine. And that would be a success.

Wendy White:
Yep, that would be a success. We’ve also had individuals that maybe smoke marijuana and also do opioids and they want to cut the opioids out of their life. So, you know, let’s figure out how we can do that. It is still improving their situation, hopefully helping their health, their, you know, being present with their family, all of those pieces, if that’s the step that they can take today. We also have a lot of stories where and one in particular that I really like where they did always have a glass of wine with dinner. That was kind of their process while they decided to, you know, they were going to stop drinking. So they incorporated mocktails and it ended up being this like family event to create these mocktails. Right. And so being able to take fun scenarios to replace what used to be what probably a very important part of their dining experience. They just created a new tradition and a new experience to complement. So I think it’s a fun way to look at it.

Lee Wochner:
Yeah, everybody’s got some sort of addiction to something and if you can swap it out, right? Yeah, that’s pretty funny. That’s great. And do you have another success story that has been really uplifting that you’d like to share?

Wendy White:
Yeah, I you know, I, we have so many stories, but I think the ones that that tend to get me the most and I have there’s multiple of them, but it’s the person who, you know, they’re here. Maybe they haven’t really made connections with anyone. It’s hard for them to open up. You can tell they’re not comfortable we’ve had like we had one person who. She actually wouldn’t come in, even though she lived in one of our locations, would not come into the center because she was just so, like had so much anxiety about being out. But through the course of time and developing that relationship with their coach, you know, there was another individual who every time he came in, he had his sweatshirt hoodie up over his head and he sat in the corner and he just like barely would engage to then, you know, the individual I first spoke about actually came into the center and met with her coach in person or the guy with the hoodie, you know, now has the hoodie down and is engaged with their coach. And so I think it’s just all the stories of the relationships that they develop with their coach and that fact that we can create that safe space and being able to celebrate their successes. So whether it’s, you know, getting a promotion at work or,

Completing a degree or whatever it might be but being able to share in those opportunities that probably wouldn’t have happened if they hadn’t had the support that they were getting from their coach.

Lee Wochner:
The common thread I’m hearing from you is remove judgment. Remove judgment and you can help someone rebuild.

Wendy White:
Yeah, absolutely.

Lee Wochner:
We’re gonna take a short break here, but when we come back, Wendy and I’ll be talking about nonprofit management, the role of coaches and advisors, and what you should do if you have a loved one in crisis. Stick around.

Jaclyn Uloth:
Hi, this is Jaclyn with Counterintuity.

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Lee Wochner:
And we’re back with Wendy White:, Chief Executive Officer of Face It Together, a nonprofit that uses peer coaching and outcome measurement to solve the disease of addiction. So let’s talk about nonprofits and nonprofit management for a little bit. One of the interesting things about the summary in your IRS filing, the description of what you do, which I read with great interest, is that you use peer coaching quote, an outcome measurement, close quote. I just think that’s incredibly important. How do you measure outcomes with clients?

Wendy White:
It’s a great question and something that’s really important to us, especially when you look at a lot of nonprofits and even funders to look for just how many people have you reached. Well, we didn’t want to just spit out like, oh, we’ve reached 500 people or whatever the number is, but actually being able to show that we made an impact on their life. And so through our assessments, we have two assessments, our recovery capital index that we use with individuals that have addiction and our wellness index for loved ones. And looking at, so they take them initially at baseline when they start engaging with coaching. And then we ask them to complete it every 30 days after that. And so then we can show the areas that we have created an improvement in their life. It kind of goes back to that earlier when I talked about, you know, society measures, successes, sobriety. This is a way to show success, even sobriety might be part of the picture. It might not be, but we have, improved things. And so to look at like their housing, their connections to their community, like I mentioned earlier, healthcare, employer, employment, do they have someone they can share their secrets with, you know, just do they have that connection and that support system? And so being able to show that yes, over the time of coaching, those pieces have improved.

Lee Wochner:
Can you give us an example of how you measure, I’m very interested in this, how you measure the wellness index of loved ones, loved ones of people who are addicted?

Wendy White:
Mm hmm. Yeah, so there’s some similarities with the recovery capital index, but then also looking at I’m not gonna have the wording exactly right, but along the lines of like relationship with the person in their life, we call them the par is our acronym for that person in their life, but you know, like is their stress level impacted by that person in their life? Do they feel like they have the skills to create healthy boundaries? How are their communication skills? So kind of looking at those interaction tools and then also looking at their coping, like how are they coping with the stress? Because that also, you know, those loved ones are just as impacted as the person in their life. They’re, you know, maybe not sleeping, they’re overeating, maybe…

you know, distracted at work, you know, whatever it might be, they have all of those same impacts. And so then being able to look at making sure they have healthy ways to cope with that stress.

Lee Wochner:
And Face It Together has developed all of these methodologies and policies and processes. Is that right?

Wendy White:
Yeah, we certainly have created, I mean, it’s with the work of others that we have done research and pulled different pieces together, but the Recovery Capital Index we did develop, we had it scientifically validated by a research company and published in the South Dakota Journal of Medicine, so a peer -reviewed journal. So, yeah.

Lee Wochner:
And then as a nonprofit, how do you measure your successes in nonprofits?

Wendy White:
Oh, yeah. So I mean, it’s, you know, the reach, obviously, I mean, we look at all the things we talked about the reach the are we improving people’s lives? And then are we getting, you know, money in the door? The other piece, right? Because I think, you know, you talk about society misconception, I think people see the word like we shouldn’t have labeled nonprofits, nonprofits, because you still have to make money, right? Like, we still have to pay our electric bill and our lease payment. And we also are very proud and we feel it’s very important. So all of our coaches are paid employees. And there’s a lot of, I don’t know, expectation that since we are a nonprofit, we should be volunteer driven. But I feel very strongly and our organization has been built on that, that lived experience is valuable and then getting them the right training and tools so that they can have the right conversations in the coaching room. And so, you know, you have to pay for all of that. So just like any other business, you still have to figure out how to make a profit, right?

Lee Wochner:
What’s the best part of serving with this particular nonprofit? What really makes it great?

Wendy White;
I mean, probably the cheesiest answer that I can give you, but it is the truth is I love my team. I have an amazing team of individuals that, you know, when you’re in a nonprofit, you may wear 16 different hats. Like I will joke, I’m the CEO, but if you call for, you know, the finance department, you’re gonna get me. I was scrubbing the toilet yesterday, you know, whatever it might’ve been. Ao we all wear lots of hats, but I have just a tremendous team with big hearts and, um, everybody is doing whatever they need to do to get the work done. And, um, just a super supportive environment, um, is important. Like the culture that you create in your organization, nonprofit or otherwise, um, having that, um, supportive culture is important to me. And so being able, we all recognize, know, we have work to do, but we also have lives outside of work. And so being as supportive as possible and in kind of that whole person. So treating employees and coworkers just like we do our members.

Lee Wochner: I have scrubbed toilets myself, I will tell you. Non -profits and for -profits, I have scrubbed toilets and I’ve taken out the trash and I’ve cleaned up dog messes and I’ve done it all. And when you really believe in the mission of what you’re doing, it just seems easy to do those things. It doesn’t seem like a chore. When you work for some organization that you don’t really, it doesn’t seem to matter, you don’t believe in it and you don’t care, then you just watch the clock, kind of. So I totally get where you’re coming from. And when you talk about a team, when you’ve got the right people, the day is just a joy, right? You’re eager to collaborate with them, talk to them, get their input. I had a call just with somebody here just before hopping on with you. And I mean, he’s just so smart and gave me great input. And I’m glad to work with him and everybody else here every day. So I get you. I get it.
So with this nonprofit in particular, what are the challenges? What makes the day harder or in a way motivates you more as a challenge?

Wendy White:
You know, I think probably the biggest challenge and it affects in a lot of different ways. It goes back to that stigma that I talked about. But one of our programs that we have is an employer program called Fit at Work, where we partner with employers to provide our coaching services to their employees and their employee family members, somewhat similar to an EAP, but it’s unlimited. Anyway, you know, the challenge, whether it’s trying to talk to, the HR department or the CEO of an organization is that stigma can often come in. Oftentimes people are like, oh, I don’t have a problem here, which I mean, 10 % of the population struggles with addiction. And for every person that has addiction, there’s three to four loved ones that are directly impacted. So every business is impacted by addiction in one way or another. And so overcoming that stigma, even in terms of, you know, fundraising, it’s not a glamorous, a glamorous mission. I mean, it’s super meaningful and it has a huge impact, but it isn’t, you know, it isn’t cute little babies that we’re helping and things like that. So it’s overcoming some of that stigma so that we can be effective in reaching more people and fundraising and all of those pieces.

Lee Wochner:
So just to clarify for folks, when you said EAP, you mean an employee assistance program?

Wendy White:
Yes, sorry about that. Yes, that’s correct.

Lee Wochner:
We all have our jargon we slip into. And I just wanted to make sure that people could follow that. Yeah, the language thing is interesting. So we were talking with somebody yesterday, a client who is in health care and working with health care providers. And they said, and we. I think somebody on their team or our team talked about a campaign, a marketing campaign. And they said, well, we don’t do campaigns. We can’t do campaigns. Nobody wants to hear a campaign. And I said, well, it’s an initiative. And she goes, oh, okay, great. It’s an initiative. If it’s an initiative and not a campaign, we’re good.

Wendy White:
Yeah, we’re good. Right?

I’m like, great. It’s an initiative. Yeah. Language, language is important. Like there’s a difference between. You know, I don’t know, a car and a convertible or a roadster, the little words make a big difference.

Wendy White:
Oh, funders don’t like to pay for marketing, so we call it member engagement versus marketing. So.

Lee Wochner:
Yeah, exactly. And that’s right. And the marketing, the member engagement is really important. I mean, how are you going to spread the word otherwise? And actually, that was my next question. How do you spread the word about what you do?

Wendy White:
Yeah, so, I mean, lots of different ways, you know, word of mouth is probably our best source of spreading the word is just people that have experienced our services and suggesting it to others. But we do do some marketing campaigns we’ve done. Telling our story is, you know, obviously the biggest. I think it’s the biggest piece. So I have a very talented director of communications. And so she is great at telling our members’ stories and our coaches’ stories. And so being able to get that out for people to hear. And when we have events, finding members that are willing to be vulnerable and share their story is always super impactful and helps reach more people.

Lee Wochner:
What I learned in this discussion is that if I followed you correctly, your service area is not just South Dakota or Colorado, it’s anywhere. I mean, you said internationally. Is it a challenge to have a service area that’s the entire globe?

Wendy White:
Yeah, it is. I mean, I don’t know that we’re targeting the entire globe necessarily, but it is interesting. We have kind of pockets of places where we have like we’re listed on a resource on a list in California. I don’t know how we got there, but it’s amazing. I’m grateful for it. And so like, yes. So then also from a funding perspective, it does make it more challenging because most funders, you know, they want to improve their communities. And so getting the ability to support individuals that can’t pay for their own services outside of our service areas does, can create challenge and, you know, is where we are dependent on generosity to be able to serve those that are outside the communities that they may live in. But I think certainly people have reached out. We have a, one of the pages that also helps reach people. We have a myth, I think you might have read it because you’ve referenced it I think a few times, but the myths around addiction. It is our highest hit page on our website and or often is like in the top of our website hits. And I think it’s one that when people Google the right words, right, it hits pretty high in people’s search engines. So I think that has helped us.

Lee Wochner:
Okay, so we’ve only got a few minutes left. I could talk to you for hours about this. I mean, this is very interesting to me. If you’ve got a loved one, a friend, a coworker, someone you know with a visible addiction problem, what should you do? I would say to reach out without judgment. That’s the biggest part. I’m not answering your question entirely, but it’s a story that I think is really powerful. One of my coworkers worked her job previous to this. She has a son that she struggles. So when you say visibly struggles, I think a lot of the time people are struggling in silence and they don’t think they have a problem because they’re doing all the things, right? I’m keeping my job and getting my kids where they need to go. I’m doing all the things. So I think it’s creating a culture. But anyway, back to my coworker, she, her previous employment, she has a son that has struggled. She quit her job to come work for Face It Together. And so when she was talking to her supervisor and he was asking her why she was leaving, she finally shared what she was going with, with her son. Hadn’t in the years prior to that, even though it was a daily struggle to find out that he was having the same struggles with his son. So they could have been a support system for each other, but they were both so riddled with shame and stigma that they didn’t share what they were going through. And so I think the most important thing is creating a culture in your with, even if it’s just you that I am a non -judgmental open person, but really it’s like a workplace culture, right? Creating that culture that allows people to be honest about what they’re going through. And so then it would be, you know, just being available, helping connect them to support, you know, just being someone safe that they can talk to.

Lee Wochner:
Is there anything else you’d like people to know about Face It Together? Anything we didn’t cover that really people should have as a takeaway?

Wendy White:
I think we’ve, we’ve covered a ton of it. I’ve enjoyed the conversation immensely. The only, maybe the only other thing I would say is, I mean, I have used addiction a lot, but we have, um, also addressed, I mean, and it kind of goes into that harm reduction, like reducing your use, but, um, you know, problem drinking, you might not, like I, my own personal story and I don’t need to take the time to get into all of that, but definitely was problem drinking. I was using alcohol to cope. If someone would have told me that I had addiction, I would have been like, whatever, you’re crazy. I’m fine. I got it all together. But it was certainly negatively impacting my life. I wasn’t present for my kids. I wasn’t probably the best employee that I could have been. All of those pieces. And so, you know, I think wherever you are, whatever your relationship is with alcohol or other drugs, just recognizing kind of what that impact is on your life, being mindful of why and when you’re doing it. And if you aren’t comfortable with the outcomes, reach out for help, whether it’s to us or to someone else. But I think there’s also a lot of focus on having that clinical diagnosis of addiction. And I think even just having an unhealthy relationship with a substance, you can make improvements.

Lee Wochner:
What’s the best way for people to connect with you if they have questions or feedback?

Wendy White:
Yeah, absolutely. The easiest is to go out on our website, which is wefaceittogether .org. And we have a get started button. And so you can fill out a short form and then our first impressions team would reach out to get something scheduled.

Lee Wochner:
Awesome. Well, Wendy, thank you so much and thank you for what you and FACED It Together are doing for people. Thank you.

Wendy White:
Well, thank you for having me and letting me share our story. So thanks, Lee.

Jaclyn Uloth:
Thanks for listening! We’re glad you came. That’s What C! Said is produced by Lisa Pham and engineered by Joe Curet. It’s available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. Please like and follow the show. Visit Counterintuity.com to sign up and learn more.