Second chances

Lee Wochner:

Could you be so committed to helping the homeless that you would start a shelter in your own home? That’s just what our guest today did. When John David Graham, founder of Good Samaritan Home in Greenville, Ohio, decided to turn his own home into a homeless shelter, he found his life’s work. Before that, his path wasn’t clear, and for a period, he himself was homeless. Since then, he’s built an organization that now manages 19 houses for people who’d otherwise be out on the street. What was it like housing the homeless in his own house? How can nonprofits expand their influence and change lives? What can each of us do to lead a life of meaning, helping people who just need a second chance? We’ll discuss that and much, much more on this episode of That’s What C Said.

Jaclyn Uloth:
Welcome to That’s What C! Said, the Counterintuity podcast, featuring interviews with leaders and doers who have helped to make our world a better place through their actions — and especially through marketing, communications, and embracing change. Here’s Lee Wochner.

Lee Wochner:
John, thanks for joining us today. It’s nice to meet you.

John David Graham:
My pleasure, I’m very glad to be here today.

Lee Wochner:
What does Good Samaritan Home do?

John David Graham:
Good Samaritan Home is a nonprofit. Back in 2001, I started a homeless shelter actually in my own home because it was all we could afford, and I wanted to do something to help people who had been through what I had been through. At one point in my life, I had been homeless while going through a series of career changes. Coming out of the 60s, being homeless was not uncommon. I was living in a truck at the time.

But what happened was, I got married, raised a family, and when I was 53 years old, I wanted to do something more than just earn a paycheck. So, we started a homeless shelter. The Department of Correction came to us and asked if some of their people coming out of jail under supervision could stay in our shelter, and they offered compensation. I was able to develop a per diem contract with the state of Ohio for four beds. That led to getting a house next door, then another house, and then another house.

Over the next 23 years, we’ve grown to 19 houses. On any given day, we’re housing 85 men and women who have come out of prison temporarily.

Lee Wochner:
Wow. So, there are already 100,000 questions from just that paragraph. Let’s start with the one everyone will have: what on earth was it like starting a homeless shelter in your house?

John David Graham:
I don’t recommend it at all. Number one, dealing with homeless people is a wild card because you’re often dealing with mental health issues. But we were getting referrals, so they were semi-screened. It’s not like you’re taking somebody directly off the street. We immediately bought a house next door and remodeled it.

John David Graham:
We had little money saved aside, so we were able to do that. That gave us a degree of safety. But sometimes, when you’re starting off as an entrepreneur or a dreamer with an idea, you go with what you have. These are the cards I was dealt. I had no real money and I had a dream, and this was the best I could do.

Lee Wochner:
Well, yeah, I think that’s exactly right. We always tell people, we call that a resource check. Check your resources, see what you’ve got, see what you want to do, how they match up, what’s the gap, and how do you fill it. The death of any ambition is to say, “Well, I don’t have this, so therefore I can’t do that.” Hats off to you for having a mindset of abundance.

I read your website and I see that again and again—the idea of buying this new house before there was an additional need because you knew there would be a need. That was in 2019, I think. You decided to buy that house because it was available, and that’s really a perspective of abundance: to go do that without worrying about what you don’t have. You’ll go get it.

John David Graham:
Our philosophy is, “What’s the need, and how do we help meet that need?” Often, that means saying, “I have to grow, and we’ll be able to fill it eventually.” In fact, just two weeks ago, we were out looking for another building because we know that in the next year, we’re going to need more bed space.

Lee Wochner:
Which is, in a way, a tragedy when you think about it. One of the things I tell my now adult children is, we did not have all of these people living on the street when I was a boy, and now we have all of these people living on the street. I’m in Los Angeles—it’s a crisis. What do you think is leading to that?

John David Graham:
I address that issue in the novel I wrote about this whole idea. Daniel Robinson, the main character, went to San Francisco in 1969 or 1970. He was told coming into San Francisco, “It’s the most beautiful city in the world. You’ll love it. Here, people are more important than money.” What he discovered was a lot of street crime, a lot of danger, and a lot of drugs.

His best friend, who he was working and living with, died of an overdose. So Daniel said to his mentor, “What happened to San Francisco?” And his mentor replied, “It was drugs. Drugs changed the street.”

Lee Wochner:
Yeah, there’s drugs, and I’m certainly aware of that. I’ve lost some friends to drugs. Then there’s the theory that it’s also about affordability—a bunch of people wind up on the street because they can’t afford a place to live.

John David Graham:
Now that’s another factor, absolutely. We’re seeing it across the country. I’m here in Western Ohio now, and we were buying houses here for $20,000 or $30,000 for a duplex back during 2008 when things were much cheaper. But now, those same houses are $100,000. In California prices, you’d still think that’s cheap.

Lee Wochner:
Absolutely, I’ll take seven of those—or more, a dozen. The house I’m speaking to you from, my now ex-wife and I bought for $158,000, and it’s now valued at $1.8 million.

John David Graham:
See, that to me is incredible. I couldn’t even begin to afford that. I don’t know—I just don’t know how people do it. Then you couple in another factor of mental health. We used to have places for people who were struggling with mental health; we had institutions. Now we put them on the street, and they end up in jail. Upwards of 60 to 80 percent of my residents have mental health or addiction issues.

Lee Wochner:
So I have to go back to my opening question here. When you started this in your house—and I realize you quickly purchased another house to do this—what was it like dealing with that? And then, how do you deal with that issue overall? I mean, what’s the behavior that you’re dealing with?

John David Graham:
I think what we had to do was ask ourselves, what are we here to do? Are we here to change people and ensure they reach a degree of civility, or are we here to just offer a temporary safe space to give them an opportunity—a chance?

Technically, we were doing a Department of Correction program of housing, so they could stay for 90 days at no charge. Then we coupled them with mental health support, job and family support, or, in some cases, job training through the county reentry office. All we do is offer the temporary housing, but we make it a safe place that is more than just a bed. I call it mentoring.

In other words, I try to get involved with somebody—my staff and I—and ask, “How are you doing? Tell me about your family. Can I help you with this?” So, we’re not case workers. It’s more of the whole idea of a support system. You and I used to go to your pastor for help or to your high school counselor for help. That’s the way I approach it: informal counseling.

Lee Wochner:
Well, you mentioned a pastor. When I was growing up, we always had pastors in our church who were enormously helpful to the family in many, many ways. I can only imagine what it feels like for folks who were on the street, exhibited some aberrant behavior, got picked up and put in jail, and now they have a safe place for 90 days while you’re trying to help them and they’re trying to figure it out.

John David Graham:
The average stay is actually close to nine months because, realistically, you’re not going to find a job and your own apartment in 90 days. Even if you get a job, you can’t save the first month’s rent and a deposit. So we extend that. We also have another program for what we call hard-to-place people, and they’ve stayed for upwards of two years because it takes that long to get stable for many people.

Lee Wochner:
Are there a lot of relatively inexpensive, vacant houses in the greater Dayton area in Ohio?

John David Graham:
Not compared to what it was. It used to be that way. In 2008, there were a lot of houses because the market had dropped considerably, and that’s when we started buying several houses. My background is in construction, so I could do a lot of the remodeling. I remember buying a duplex for $16,000 that only needed $5,000 worth of work. Now we can house six people in there.

Lee Wochner:
Some years ago, my aunt—my mother’s family is all from Johnstown, Pennsylvania, which is close to Western Ohio. So my aunt died, and she had a two-story house on a hill with land and a potato cellar. The house sold for $5,000. I said to my mother, “$5,000? You mean I could just write a check out of my checking account and buy a house?” She said, “Yes, but you’d have to be in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. What would you do there?” Because there were no jobs. It’s just an amazing situation where there are these pockets around the country where housing is very affordable, but it’s affordable because there isn’t a lot of economic activity. Johnstown is one of those places with a declining population—it’s less than half what it was when I was a boy.

John David Graham:
Exactly right. We’ve seen that here in Ohio with the auto industry. The area where we’re getting most of our houses in Dayton, back in 1945, was a very nice area—duplexes right off Broadway from downtown. You could take the bus. NCR was the cash register company. Delphi was in town. There was the assembly plant in town. It was a thriving community. In fact, it was a brain area for the automobile industry for almost a century.

It’s gone. One out of three houses in our neighborhood is abandoned. On any given day, we just don’t know if you’re going to be hugged or slugged by the neighbors. The truth is, by the fact that we are not just landlords—we’re more than that. There are a lot of absentee landlords right now. People get solicitations all the time offering to buy my houses from investors in California, Chicago, Atlanta. They’re just in it to pull in the rent. But what we do, because we’re not just landlords, is provide a support system. We’re in the houses every day.

Lee Wochner:
Well, the upside to that is, again, taking a resource check. What resources do you have? You have these folks who need a place to live, and it turns out there are houses. But somebody needs to take this on, and that’s been you and Good Samaritan Home to make that possible.

John David Graham:
We make sure that the lawn is cut and the house is maintained. Not only that, but we make sure that you make your bed in the morning. You keep your house clean because, for us, housekeeping is rehabilitation. It’s a way of saying, “I care about myself, and I care about my roommates.” That’s what I call a pronoun shift—from “I” to “we.” That’s a big part of rehabilitation.

Lee Wochner:
Part of what you’re talking about is discipline and the role it plays in forming character. Is that not what you’re describing?

John David Graham:
Absolutely. We’re dealing with people who have an “I want it today” mindset. They’re used to taking things immediately, which is often why they went to jail—they’ve never learned delayed gratification. Part of what we teach is that you have accountability before you get the benefits.

Lee Wochner:
Well, we’re living in an “I nation” these days, aren’t we? “I need it immediately. I want it right now. I have no talent, but now I’m on reality TV, and I’m a celebrity. I got everything.” And by the way, then they immediately blow it all on jewelry and drugs. Then they’re back. That’s the celebrity cycle.

John David Graham:
Absolutely. Not even a question. It’s frustrating because we don’t really call it rehabilitation. It’s habilitation. We’re trying to teach these original skills that you and I may have grown up with, but they’ve never had.

Lee Wochner:
Well, things have changed dramatically and they will continue to change very quickly. You mentioned NCR a couple of minutes ago. I wonder how many people listening would even know what NCR was. Do you remember what NCR stood for? Because I do.

John David Graham:
Yes. National Cash Register.

Lee Wochner:
Yes, and then there was also, who were the people who did copies that you didn’t need carbon paper? Remember that? Remember carbon paper?

John David Graham:
Yes, that wasn’t…

Lee Wochner:
That wasn’t NCR, but you know, so I’m not an actor, but I’m having fun. I’m in a play. I’m a theater guy, right? So I’ve been cast in this play. Last night, the play set in 1944. The director brought a prop that a couple of guys have to work with. He ordered this from Amazon, and it’s a phone—a replica phone from 1944. Most of the guys in the cast are younger than I am. I said, “How many of you have ever seen a phone like this before?”

I mean, think about it. Maybe in an old movie, but nobody watches old movies anymore. They’ve never seen a phone like that. They think their smartphone is a phone, but they have little awareness of all the iterations it took to get to the smartphone. The pace of change is dramatic in this society. Somehow, we’ve glided over that area of discipline, responsibility, accountability, and being part of society. I think that’s a big part of what’s going on here—we’re not connected enough, we’re not responsible, and things aren’t expected of us on an individual and social civic level.

John David Graham:
There’s a book that came out a while ago called Bowling Alone. The idea is that the demise of community service groups and clubs has led to less connection. Bowling used to be a major activity in communities. You had leagues, spent three or four hours with your friends, bowled, shared a beer, ate hot dogs, and talked. You felt connected.

Hillary Clinton once mentioned that it takes a community to raise a child. But now churches are down at least 20% because of this shift. Maybe part of it is cell phones. You spend your time on the phone instead of face-to-face with people. I can travel the world through a Facebook reel and spend hours doing that without ever going anywhere.

Lee Wochner:
And never be with anyone.

John David Graham:
Exactly.

Lee Wochner:
I think everyone listening understands that dynamic. I’ve been talking on this podcast recently about our national epidemic of loneliness. I see it all over—people desperate to connect but with no idea how to connect. That’s what makes it more important than ever to see other people as human beings, to keep your friends and loved ones close, and to connect because we are more isolated than perhaps ever in history.

John David Graham:
I think you’ve hit on something key for us. We’re not counselors, and I don’t even pretend to be one. But as a mentor, what I tell my staff is to just ask, “Tell me about your family. Where did you come from?” We listen, and the act of listening says volumes—that I care about what you have to say, or that I care about you. It’s amazing how people feel like they can open up with things they never talked about before. And it’s just by listening.

Lee Wochner:
Absolutely. And you heard me say I’m still connected to my theater company and to doing theater. It’s one of the reasons. So last night’s rehearsal was frustrating for many reasons. It’s a very technical play. But I had a moment of realizing, “I’m damn lucky and glad to be here.” This isn’t frustrating at all. Look, I’m spending the evening with these folks rehearsing this play. It’s a joy.

And yes, my father used to belong to a social club years ago. He was elected to the school board. My mother was certainly involved in a number of things. But now there’s far less of that. I personally know people who don’t have any of those sorts of connections. I worry about them and try to stay in touch with the ones that I know.

John David Graham:
We used to call the television the “plug-in drug,” and that was when we had three channels.

Lee Wochner:
Yeah.

John David Graham:
Now, you can flip through 300 channels, and it’s very, very easy. I’m not being critical—I don’t want to sound old-fashioned—but I’m old enough to see a change. I’m aware of how tempting it is for me and for all of us.

Lee Wochner:
Yeah. I want to ask you about something else. Your bio notes that prior to founding Good Samaritan Home, you were a door-to-door salesman, a children’s home counselor, a substitute school teacher, a truck driver, a fireman, building contractor, minister, and journalist—not all at the same time. That’s also in your LinkedIn profile. So why is this worth noting? Why do you highlight it in your materials? It’s quite a range of jobs.

John David Graham:
If I could synopsize my worldview, it’s this: we live in a culture where youth is celebrated—Mark Zuckerberg becomes a millionaire at 19, Elon Musk at 25. And if by 30 you haven’t achieved your dream, you feel like something’s wrong. That assumes you have all the tools, support systems, and opportunities to run at full force.

But for most of us—definitely for me—we come from structures where there’s no support or guidance, and we bounce around like pinballs trying to find where we fit. I went to college because in the ’60s, my high school counselor told me I should. I graduated with a degree in psychology but had no direction, no family structure. So, I just tried different jobs.

When I was a fireman, which should have been an ideal career, I couldn’t see myself doing the same thing every day. So, I left to travel the country. I bought a truck and started driving across the U.S. When I got married, I carried the same habits of looking for the next best job. That’s where all those career changes came from—lack of structure, discipline, and guidance.

I realized over time that the detours we make often happen because we don’t know better. That’s why it’s in my bio. I think many people, even if they’ve stayed in the same job, still feel like they’ve made mistakes. They think, “I wish I had a bigger house, more money, or a better job.” I’ve concluded that mistakes are part of the learning process. They build calluses, but they also give you a tender heart for others.

I like to think of life as written in pencil. All those career moves were written in pencil. I overcame them, but they’re still part of me. Ironically, I’ve used every one of those skills at Good Samaritan Home. They’ve all helped me. But I didn’t find my niche until I was 53 years old when I started Good Samaritan Home. Now, at 76, I feel like I’m 36 because I’ve found my purpose.

Lee Wochner:
I can relate to that. My brain thinks I’m 28 years younger than I am. When I go to the gym, I often injure myself because I forget my body isn’t as young as my brain thinks it is.

With all that fascinating background, how did you become homeless? How did that happen?

John David Graham:
I was always looking for the next best thing. I left a good job as a fireman to drive trucks, but truck driving was seasonal, and I ended up losing that job. I decided to fix up a camper and live in it while writing a novel. I bought a Royal portable typewriter and started writing in the back of the truck. To make ends meet, I decided to tend bar, but I realized I didn’t like going to bars, which limited my income.

Eventually, I couldn’t afford the truck, and it was repossessed. I was in Michigan in October, and I could see everything coming down—wondering where I would sleep, if it would rain, or how cold it would get.

Then I met someone who became my support system. We got married shortly after. She encouraged me—gently but firmly—to get a job, any job. I did, and I’m still with her today.

Lee Wochner:
Good for her. I’d keep that woman too! It sounds like she helped you find your life’s work and gave you the ability to be a role model for others who’ve had similar struggles.

John David Graham:
Absolutely. I tend to be much more sympathetic, and I try to teach my staff that as well. It’s important to remember, “There but for the grace of God and a few bad decisions go you or I.”

Lee Wochner:
We’re going to take a short break, but when we come back, John and I will discuss how he and Good Samaritan Home have leveraged their fundraising and marketing strategies for greater success. Stick around.

Jaclyn Uloth:

According to the Association of Fundraising Professionals, the lifespan of an average website is 2 years and 7 months. 

If your website is three years old — or older — odds are it needs a tune-up or a complete overhaul. 

A website refresh can offer improved design and content that drives donations, and new technology can save you time on tedious tasks you’re doing manually, while helping to keep your website safe from hackers. 

For a free assessment of your website, contact us through our own website at counterintuity.com, or send us an email at info@counterintuity.com. We’re always ready to help. 

Lee Wochner:
And we’re back with John David Graham, Executive Director of Good Samaritan Home in Greater Dayton, Ohio. John, can you give us a little idea of how Good Samaritan Home operates?

John David Graham:
Well, what happened was, my philosophy when we started Good Samaritan Home was not to say, “I want to do this for the community.” I asked the question, “What does the community need?” We were getting people coming to our door. I had been a minister at one point, thinking that I could help in the community. I found that people would knock on the door asking, “Do you have food? Do you have shelter?” And I couldn’t do a whole lot. That was the founding reason for starting the program.

I checked and saw there was not a shelter in our community. So I started one, but even then, it’s difficult to, number one, have enough space for the need, and number two, funding is critical. Donations are tough to rely on. The Department of Correction came to us and said, “We have an existing program. We’d like you to start it in your area, and we will pay you a per diem.” That became our funding source.

The thinking is, if it costs $89 a day to put somebody in jail, but they can be in our house for a third of that, it saves taxpayers money. Additionally, all the data shows that rehabilitation works better in the community. So after someone has done their time, they’re on parole and living under supervision but working, paying taxes, paying child support, and participating in normal community life. It’s a win-win. I like to say it’s fiscally prudent for the Republicans and morally enticing for the Democrats.

Lee Wochner:
I like it for a number of reasons as well. I’m an ardent foe of the prison industrial system, where some people make money off locking others behind bars. I don’t think all of these people belong behind bars.

John David Graham:
Absolutely. I’d say close to 80% of the people I deal with have taken a plea. They may or may not be guilty, but when faced with 40 years versus 10 years, they’ll take the 10. They can’t imagine doing 40.

Lee Wochner:
How many staff are there at Good Samaritan Home?

John David Graham:
We have 10 now.

Lee Wochner:
And you’re housing 85 men, is that right?

John David Graham:
Give or take—it changes day to day. We keep adding houses based on the need. It’s not institutionalized; it’s a boarding house setup. For example, in a house with two bedrooms, you can put four people because they share a bedroom, but they also have shared living spaces. It teaches a lot of responsibility. So yes, I’d say about 85 people, give or take.

Lee Wochner:
How many people are on your board? You’re a nonprofit, right?

John David Graham:
Right. We have to have a board to meet Ohio’s corporation laws. At one point, we had six board members; now, we have three, plus non-voting members. I’m a non-voting member. I don’t necessarily look for professionals. I look for people who have a passion for the work we do. One board member is a real estate agent, another a pastor, and another an attorney. We’ve also had social workers and accountants. The question is, “Do you care about the work we’re doing?” I want advice and consent.

Lee Wochner:
How did the Department of Corrections hear about you and ask for help with their program?

John David Graham:
Ohio developed what they called the Ohio Plan about 24 years ago. It was based on research about the best ways to rehabilitate, and the conclusion was to do so in the community. They were looking for people to serve on advisory boards. I started visiting local prisons to meet with chaplains and corrections officials. I also started a program called Citizen Circle, which was a mentoring group for people on parole.

Through that work, they heard about our shelter and volunteer work. They approached us and said, “Maybe we can add another component to what you’re doing. Help us, and we’ll help you.” It was a win-win for both of us.

Lee Wochner:
It also reveals, once again, the value of being connected, of doing the work, and getting noticed for doing the work—for being present.

John David Graham:
Absolutely. In fact, one of the program’s requirements is to have one year’s experience as a shelter director or something similar. We had that experience, plus being a nonprofit, which met their needs.

Lee Wochner:
I tell people all the time, “How do I do this? How do I do that?” I always say, “Get out of your shell, get out of your work environment, and go meet people. Get actively involved. Build your network.” It always gets you somewhere because you wind up more connected. Staying isolated and doing everything online doesn’t have the same impact as being actively present in the community.

Lee Wochner::
And we’re back with John David Graham:, Executive Director of Good Samaritan Home in Greater Dayton, Ohio, which helps to inspire healthy child development. No, it doesn’t. Hang on. My goodness. There’s a typo. My goodness. Hang on a second. Where is the, here we go. All right, Lisa, I’m doing it again. And we’re back with John David Graham:, Executive Director of Good Samaritan Home in Greater Dayton, Ohio. John, can you give us a little idea of how Good Samaritan Home operates?

John David Graham:
Well, what happened was, my philosophy when we started Good Samaritan Home was not to say I want to do this for the community. I asked the question, what does the community need? And we were getting people coming to our door. I had been a minister at one point thinking that I could help in the community. And I found that people would knock on the door saying, do you have food? Do you have shelter? And I couldn’t do a whole lot. So that was the founding reason for starting.

Because I had checked that there was not a shelter in our community. So I started that, but even then it’s difficult to, number one, have enough space for the need, but also the funding is critical because donations, it’s tough to make a program work on just donations. So the Department of Correction came to us and said, we have an existing program.

We’d like you to start it in your area and we will pay you a per diem. And so that became our funding source. And the thinking is, if it costs $89 a day to put somebody in jail, and if they can put them in our house for a third of that, then that person, number one, you save taxpayer money on jail costs, but number two, in the community, all the data shows that this is the best way to rehabilitate, not in prison.

So after they’ve done their time, they’re on parole and they’re actually in the community under supervision, but working, paying taxes, paying child support, buying goods in the community and basically practicing normal living. So it’s win-win. I call it, it’s fiscally prudent for the Republicans and morally enticing for the Democrats. So everybody wins.

Lee Wochner::
Well, I like it for a number of reasons as well. I’m an ardent foe of the prison industrial system where some people make money off of locking people behind bars. I don’t think all of these people belong behind bars.

John David Graham:
Absolutely. I would say actually probably close to 80% of the people I deal with have taken a plea and they may or may not be guilty, but they were looking at 40 and they took 10 instead. And because they could do 10, they can’t do 40.

Lee Wochner::
How many staff are there at Good Samaritan Home? Okay. And then, and you are, did I get the number right? You’re housing 85 men, is that right?

John David Graham:
We have 10 now. Give or take it changes from day to day. We keep adding houses according to the need and it’s not an institutionalized situation. It’s a boarding house. So if we have a house with two bedrooms, you can put four people in that house because they share a bedroom, but you have common living areas, and that teaches a lot of responsibility. So yes, I would say give or take 85 people.

Lee Wochner::
How many people on your board? Because you are a nonprofit, right?

John David Graham:
Right. It had to have a board. So I’m accountable to the state of Ohio for the corporation laws there. And I have a board of directors. At one point we had six, now we have three, and then we have non-voting members. I’m a non-voting member. And I don’t look for necessarily professional people. I look for people who have a passion for the work we do. So one man’s a real estate agent. Another is a pastor. Another is an attorney.

And we’ve had people who were former social workers and another was an accountant. Do you care for the work we’re doing? Because I’m looking for advice and consent.

Lee Wochner::
How did the Board of Corrections hear about you to come to you and say, please help us with our problem?

John David Graham:
Well, Ohio developed about 24 years ago what they called the Ohio plan based on the research on how to best deal with rehabilitation. And the conclusion was in the community. So they were looking for people who would be on an advisory board. So I started traveling to the local prisons to meet and talk with the chaplains and the Department of Correction people. And I started a program called Citizen Circle, which is a mentoring group that the Department of Correction had.

We did it in our local community of community volunteers helping people who were on parole in the community. It was non-residential. And because of that, they heard about our work, because of the volunteer work I was doing for the Department of Correction. And they said, with your shelter, maybe we can add another component to it. Help us, we will help you. So it was a win-win for both of us.

Lee Wochner::
It also reveals once again the value of being connected, of doing the work and getting noticed for doing the work, for being present.

John David Graham:
Absolutely. In fact, the requirement for the program is to have one year’s experience as a shelter director of some sort. So we had that experience going in, plus being a nonprofit. That met their needs.

Lee Wochner::
I tell people all the time, they’re like, well, how do I do this? How do we do that? And I’m like, well, getting out of your shell, your work environment, going and meeting some people, getting actively involved, building your network to put it baldly, always gets you somewhere because you wind up more connected as opposed to, again, staying isolated and just doing something on the internet. When you’re out in the park, you’re just building that address book.

Lee Wochner::
I don’t think it sounds trite at all actually. Most people, whether they realize it or not, want to lead a life of meaning. And I mean, take a really tiny little example, I don’t need anything for Christmas. I don’t need anything for Christmas. I don’t need any more stuff. So I like to give gifts. I like to go find some people having a bad Christmas and hand them out a little bit more money than they were expecting.

I like to do, it doesn’t make me special. It just makes me, I don’t need anything. And it feels, it does feel better to give than to receive when you don’t need, when your basic needs are met. It’s just a great thing to give. And there are so many ways to give and to help somebody. And when you just relate to people, because I also think we’re in a situation where we’re bombarded with information. And so we’re not always able to focus on the thing right in front of us, which is someone else.

John David Graham:
Absolutely. You know, we had an idealism that came out of the sixties, but without accountability. And I think the balance is in between where there, I think, I think we can still dream about making the world a better place, but it doesn’t come through another program. It comes through you and I making a difference in the people we meet today in some way. And it doesn’t mean giving up money on the street corner.

It just means, maybe it means just sitting down and having lunch with somebody who’s lonely. And so we’re trying to do that on a larger scale.

Lee Wochner::
John, do you have any advice for people who’d like to make an impact personally or with their nonprofits?

John David Graham:
Well, I would say the first thing is to ask what the need is in the community and then try to adapt to meet that need. But what helps us is that we’re not doing it. Even though we’re audited by the state and we’re audited by my accountants, I’m actually audited by a higher authority. So I remember that.

We have a saying growing up, at the end of our life where God will say to us, “Well done, good and faithful servant.” And I would say always remember that it’s not about success. It’s about helping one person today, not tomorrow or next week, but helping somebody today on some level with whatever you can do. But then you have to be very, very accountable and aboveboard honest with the work you do.

Lee Wochner::
What’s the best way for people to connect with you if they want to reach out, learn more, have a discussion?

John David Graham:
Well, the first thing I would suggest is, it’s not a sales pitch, but if you want to understand what Good Samaritan does, read the novel Running as Fast as I Can. It’s on Amazon. It’s fiction, but it’s garnered 25 awards because it’s just a darn good story, but it’s about second chances.

And then go to my website, johndavidgraham.com, and there’s a contact, and you can reach out to me there. And I’d be glad to answer any questions that someone would have because I can’t do everything, but you and I together can do twice as much as I can do alone.

Lee Wochner::
John, really nice spending some time with you. Thank you.

John David Graham:
My pleasure, I had a great time with this. Thank you.

Lee Wochner:
Thanks so much.